(Dzogchen) - please help me out "Dzogchenpa"

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Re: Dzogchen - please help me out

Postby kirtu » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:01 pm

Hanzze wrote:Just got a hint... maybe that was the problem till now. :-)

It should be: Dzogchenpa, what are the qualities of a Dzogchenpa


A Dzogchenpa is a bodhisattva anywhere on the path from still being overwhelmed by their negativities on a daily basis all the way up to being a functioning Thatagatha. The culmination of Dzogchen realization is that the person isn't a sentient being after all but they are a Thatagatha for real. The only real practice is to maintain this experience (that in reality one is a Thatagatha) second by second even in sleep in their daily life (i.e. to never be distracted from the Thathagatha experience or realization).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Dzogchen - please help me out

Postby Hanzze » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:50 pm

Thanks Kirt!

The qualities/attributes of a "person"/being/"mind and rupa phenomena" called Dzogchenpa, or a Dzogchenpa.

(Explanation example: What is called a english teacher? a person who have the skill of fluently speaking and writing english and has the talent of teaching it...)

I guess I will laugh for hours when I find out what my problem is... :-)
Just that! :-)
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Re: Dzogchen - please help me out

Postby Individual » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:49 pm

Hanzze wrote::-) just the qualities of Dzogchen... do anybody know?

"Those who know don't speak. Those who speak don't know". :)
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Re: Dzogchen - please help me out

Postby muni » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:24 pm

kirtu wrote:
Hanzze wrote:Just got a hint... maybe that was the problem till now. :-)

It should be: Dzogchenpa, what are the qualities of a Dzogchenpa


A Dzogchenpa is a bodhisattva anywhere on the path from still being overwhelmed by their negativities on a daily basis

Kirt


No. To be overwhelmed by emotion is ma rigpa.

Conduct of Bodhisattva in Dzogchen: Action, meditation, view is united.

Further questions can maybe be asked to a Dzogchen master, not here in open forum.
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Re: Dzogchen - please help me out

Postby Hanzze » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:03 am

Individual wrote:
Hanzze wrote::-) just the qualities of Dzogchen... do anybody know?

"Those who know don't speak. Those who speak don't know". :)

Thanks I got it *haha* but I will be patient to get a worldly description

Further questions can maybe be asked to a Dzogchen master, not here in open forum.

Dear muni,
that would be the end of this try to connect "Buddhists" as I would not tell it further. So the intention must be from the master. I will be patient.

_/\_
Just that! :-)
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Re: (Dzogchen) - please help me out "Dzogchenpa"

Postby Yontan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:19 am

Hi Hanzze. I guess I'm still not clear about what you're asking.
Do you want to know basic dzogchen view, meditation and action? There are many books about it.
Disregarding ideas of sectarian loyalty or bias, dzogchen as a view transcends all notions of duality, because it does not rely on the intellect.
The practice relies on the actual view of dharmata as a direct experience.
Activity is unhindered by either kleshas or vows, but is always responsive to the needs of beings in a very natural way, like water flowing downward or the sun warming the ground.
I suggest Namkhai Norbu's "Dzogchen Teachings" or "Crystal and the Way of Light" for starters. Like any method within tantra, benefit is minimal from reading books, but it should give you an idea of what you're trying to translate into Pali.
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Re: (Dzogchen) - please help me out "Dzogchenpa"

Postby Hanzze » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:43 am

Dear Yontan,

sorry may poor words, may I ask in that way?

Are those qualities similar to a dzogchenpa?

32. “Bhikkhus, when mindfulness of the body has been repeatedly practiced, developed, cultivated, used as a vehicle, used as a basis, established, consolidated, and well undertaken, these ten benefits may be expected. What ten?

33. (i) “One becomes a conqueror of discontent and delight, and discontent does not conquer oneself; one abides overcoming discontent whenever it arises.

34. (ii) “One becomes a conqueror of fear and dread, and fear and dread do not conquer oneself; one abides overcoming fear and dread whenever they arise.

35. (iii) “One bears cold and heat, hunger and thirst, and contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things; one endures ill-spoken, unwelcome words and arisen bodily feelings that are painful, racking, sharp, piercing, disagreeable, distressing, and menacing to life.

36. (iv) “One obtains at will, without trouble or difficulty, the four jhānas that constitute the higher mind and provide a pleasant abiding here and now.

37. (v) “One wields the various kinds of supernormal power...(as Sutta 108, §18)...one wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world.

38. (vi) “With the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, one hears both kinds of sounds, the divine and the human, those that are far as well as near.

39. (vii) “One understands the minds of other beings, of other persons, having encompassed them with one’s own mind. One understands a mind affected by lust as affected by lust...(as Sutta 108, §20)...an unliberated mind as unliberated.

40. (viii) “One recollects one’s manifold past lives, that is, one birth, two births...(as Sutta 51, §24)...Thus with their aspects and particulars one recollects one’s manifold past lives.

41. (ix) “With the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, one sees beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, fair and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and one understands how beings pass on according to their actions.

42. (x) “By realizing for oneself with direct knowledge, one here and now enters upon and abides in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints.

43. “Bhikkhus, when mindfulness of the body has been repeatedly practiced, developed, cultivated, used as a vehicle, used as a basis, established, consolidated, and well undertaken, these ten benefits may be expected.”

taken from the Kāyagatāsati Sutta - Mindfulness of the Body


more exact like here:

"Brahman, there are ten inspiring qualities expounded by the Blessed One — the one who knows, the one who sees, worthy & rightly self-awakened. In whoever among us those ten qualities are found, we now honor, respect, revere, & venerate him; honoring & respecting him, we live in dependence on him. Which ten?

[1] "There is the case where a monk is virtuous. He dwells restrained in accordance with the Patimokkha, consummate in his behavior & sphere of activity. He trains himself, having undertaken the training rules, seeing danger in the slightest faults.

[2] "He has heard much, has retained what he has heard, has stored what he has heard. Whatever teachings are admirable in the beginning, admirable in the middle, admirable in the end, that — in their meaning & expression — proclaim the holy life entirely perfect & pure: those he has listened to often, retained, discussed, accumulated, examined with his mind, and well-penetrated in terms of his views.

[3] "He is content with robes, alms food, lodgings, & medicinal requisites for curing the sick.

[4] "He attains — whenever he wants, without strain, without difficulty — the four jhanas that are heightened mental states, pleasant abidings in the here-&-now.

[5] "He experiences manifold supranormal powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives in & out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting crosslegged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches & strokes even the sun & moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.

[6] "He hears — by means of the divine ear-element, purified & surpassing the human — both kinds of sounds: divine & human, whether near or far.

[7] "He knows the awareness of other beings, other individuals, having encompassed it with his own awareness. He discerns a mind with passion as a mind with passion, and a mind without passion as a mind without passion. He discerns a mind with aversion as a mind with aversion, and a mind without aversion as a mind without aversion. He discerns a mind with delusion as a mind with delusion, and a mind without delusion as a mind without delusion. He discerns a restricted mind as a restricted mind, and a scattered mind as a scattered mind. He discerns an enlarged mind as an enlarged mind, and an unenlarged mind as an unenlarged mind. He discerns an excelled mind [one that is not at the most excellent level] as an excelled mind, and an unexcelled mind as an unexcelled mind. He discerns a concentrated mind as a concentrated mind, and an unconcentrated mind as an unconcentrated mind. He discerns a released mind as a released mind, and an unreleased mind as an unreleased mind.

[8] "He recollects his manifold past lives (lit: previous homes), i.e., one birth, two births, three births, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand, many aeons of cosmic contraction, many aeons of cosmic expansion, many aeons of cosmic contraction & expansion, [recollecting], 'There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here.' Thus he remembers his manifold past lives in their modes & details.

[9] "He sees — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — beings passing away and re-appearing, and he discerns how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma: 'These beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech, & mind, who reviled the noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. But these beings — who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech, & mind, who did not revile the noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the good destinations, in the heavenly world.' Thus — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — he sees beings passing away and re-appearing, and he discerns how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma.

[10] "Through the ending of the mental fermentations, he remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having known & made them manifest for himself right in the here & now.
taken from Gopaka Moggallana Sutta: Moggallana the Guardsman


are those the fruits of Dzogchen the qualities of an Dzogchenpa?

Thank you for your patient!

_/\_
with loving kindness and joy
Just that! :-)
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