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claptrap - Dhamma Wheel

claptrap

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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genkaku
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claptrap

Postby genkaku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:29 pm

Good.
Excellent.
Superior.
Authentic.
Blissful.
Enlightened.
Compassionate.
Clear-eyed.
Profound.
Wise.
True....

When it comes to such things, let others do the talking.

You and I have work to do.

Claptrap never got the job done.

Just noodling.
Smile just one smile




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kc2dpt
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Re: claptrap

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:05 pm

So the Dhammapada is claptrap? It's filled with many of those words. Some of those words have whole chapters devoted to them.
- Peter


pererin

Re: claptrap

Postby pererin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:07 pm

[Deleted by poster]
Last edited by pererin on Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cittasanto
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Re: claptrap

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:11 pm

:goodpost:


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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genkaku
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Re: claptrap

Postby genkaku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:26 pm

Smile just one smile




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Jechbi
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Re: claptrap

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:45 pm


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Placid-pool
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Re: claptrap

Postby Placid-pool » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:12 pm

All adjectives are subject to perception.

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genkaku
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Re: claptrap

Postby genkaku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:36 pm

Smile just one smile




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Placid-pool
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Re: claptrap

Postby Placid-pool » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:38 pm


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kc2dpt
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Re: claptrap

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:46 pm

- Peter


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genkaku
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Re: claptrap

Postby genkaku » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:00 pm

Dear Peter -- Words are tentatively useful in that they can inspire action. But some emphasis has to be placed on the word "tentative" since plenty of people would rather hoard the words than get to work.

Maybe it's a bit like the old Buddhist metaphor of the fellow who has been shot by the arrow and lies dying on the ground asking who shot the arrow, what kind of wood the arrow is made out of, what bird provided the feathers and so forth... when the important part would be to get the arrow out.

Those with a meditation practice, practice it and in so doing, withdraw the arrow bit by bit. Those without a meditation practice are wise to find one and then practice it. In this way, experience brings to life what currently is merely inspirational words on a page. Don't worry -- you can trust the words you love; they won't steer you wrong. But it's not enough to imagine you've got it right when you've got the words... that would just be an invitation to additional blood-stained arrows and a more ornate expression of uncertainty, don't you think?
Last edited by genkaku on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cittasanto
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Re: claptrap

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:56 pm

hi Peter all
there is a Buddhist story, zen I think about not focusing too much on the tip of the finger when it is pointing to the moon, quite a famous story I have heard it used by each tradition but I would add don't focus on the moon to much either as the finger may not be pointing at it!


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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kc2dpt
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Re: claptrap

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:18 am

- Peter


thecap
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Re: claptrap

Postby thecap » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:45 am


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genkaku
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Re: claptrap

Postby genkaku » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:43 am

Smile just one smile




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kc2dpt
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Re: claptrap

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:47 pm

- Peter


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genkaku
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Re: claptrap

Postby genkaku » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:25 pm

Smile just one smile




thecap
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Re: claptrap

Postby thecap » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:05 pm


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kc2dpt
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Re: claptrap

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:47 pm

- Peter


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genkaku
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Re: claptrap

Postby genkaku » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:01 pm

Dear thecap -- Apologies. Nothing wrong with encouragement at all. We all need it. But for my money, we all need to be aware as well of the limitations that encouragements can invite if they are taken too literally ... or as if those encouragements were actual answers to our deepest prayers.

Here, as a printed-word encouragement, is a small poem or sutra by Dai O Kokushi. To my mind, it wouldn't matter if Joe the Plumber had written the words or whether the author ascribed to Mahayana, Therevada or any other sort of Buddhism. What matters is whether those words are true AND the willingness of any particular reader to investigate/actualize/realize whatever truth they point to:

ON ZEN

There is a reality even prior to heaven and earth;
It has no form, much less a name;
Eyes fail to see it; it has no voice for ears to detect;
To call it Mind or Buddha violates its nature,
For it then becomes like a visionary flower in the air;
It is not Mind, nor Buddha;
Absolutely quiet, and yet illuminating in a mysterious way,
It allows itself to be perceived only by the clear-eyed.
It is Dharma truly beyond form and soud;
It is Tao, having nothing to do with words.
Wishing to entice the blind,
The Buddha has playfully let words escape his golden mouth;
Heaven and earth are ever since filled with entangling briars.

O my good worthy friends gathered here,
If you desire to listen to the thunderous voice of the Dharma,
Exhaust your words, empty your thoughts,
For then you may come to recognize this One Essence.
Smile just one smile





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