Heart Sutra Study

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Heart Sutra Study

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:37 pm

Here are three 2 & 1/2 hour sessions of HHDL expounding upon the Heart Sutra. (That means each is the length of an elaborate Hollywood blockbuster :popcorn: ).

I'm placing this here rather than in the Tibetan section since I think he takes pains to address concerns of various traditions, interpretations, schools of thought, etc.

Enjoy --

Session 1 (The sound is missing from the first 5 minutes or so of this session, but it involves introductions by others so you won't miss the Dalai Lama's address)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6858067

Session 2
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6862556

Session 3
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6881537
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:16 pm

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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:30 pm

Here is a link to Venerable Huifeng's scholarly translation of the "Heart Sutra" (actually one needs to click on a link at this introductory page to view his pdf file):
http://wisdom.buddhistdoor.com/huifeng/ ... e-english/
:bow:


I have a question (I hope I haven't overlooked an obvious note) which I am sure someone (perhaps even Huifeng himself) can field. If the text was originally composed in Chinese, why is it also in Sanskrit? Is this an unusual situation? Wasn't the dissemination of early Buddhist texts generally an adoption by early scholar-monk's such as Zhi Qian or Xuanzang? Was this translation from an early Chinese Buddhist canon into Sanskrit? I am sure I have gotten something backwards, but I am not sure what it might be. :mrgreen:
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Huifeng » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:54 am

Su DongPo wrote:Here is a link to Venerable Huifeng's scholarly translation of the "Heart Sutra" (actually one needs to click on a link at this introductory page to view his pdf file):
http://wisdom.buddhistdoor.com/huifeng/ ... e-english/
:bow:


Not that scholarly, really. But, if anyone wants more scholarly juice on this topic, I would refer them here:
Heart Sutra and Large Prajnaparamita relationship.
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Huifeng » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:07 am

Su DongPo wrote:I have a question (I hope I haven't overlooked an obvious note) which I am sure someone (perhaps even Huifeng himself) can field. If the text was originally composed in Chinese, why is it also in Sanskrit? Is this an unusual situation? Wasn't the dissemination of early Buddhist texts generally an adoption by early scholar-monk's such as Zhi Qian or Xuanzang? Was this translation from an early Chinese Buddhist canon into Sanskrit? I am sure I have gotten something backwards, but I am not sure what it might be. :mrgreen:


The argument that it was originally composed in Chinese, and argument it is - not proven fact, would say that it was first in Chinese and was then back translated into Sanskrit. That is neither difficult to understand, nor entirely unlikely, either.

The key question is the role of Kumarajiva's translation. If you look at the document I linked above, you can easily see that what we now consider to be the earliest extant version of the Heart Sutra, ie. Kumarajiva's 大明咒經, has a lot of exact matches with his translation of the so-called medium length Prajnaparamita (maybe the Pancavimsati-sahasrika, but more likely a kind of Dvavimsatika-sahasrika). Later versions of the Heart sutra, in all languages, do not have some specific parts that connect Kumarajiva's two texts.

But, and here's the catch, the supposed Sanskrit of the Heart Sutra and the Pancavimsata, do NOT match up. In fact, the Sanskrit of the Heart Sutra is really quite strange, it has some expressions which though understandable on a semantic level, are quite different from the Sanskrit we see in all the other Prajnaparamita texts. eg. 以無所得故 is a common phrase in the Chinese, but the Sanskrit: "nAprAptitvAt" is unattested in any other text, which always has something like "na upalabhyate" for this expression.

And, due to the fact that the early and middle period translations into Chinese would often use the same Chinese term for multiple different Sanskrit terms, eg. 得 for >labh, >prapta, & >abhisambudh, it means that it is quite conceivable that someone back translating into Sanskrit from the Chinese would come up with what we now have as the Sanskrit. (Provided they knew Sanskrit, but were not exactly 100% fluent in Sanskrit Prajnaparamita literature.)

So this is kind of how Nattier argues the case. Then the head and tail of the Heart Sutra are appended on for various reasons to this chunk taken from the 3rd chp (?) of the Pancavimsati. Though for Nattier, she doubts that the earliest Chinese Heart Sutra is from Kumarajiva, but comes later. But I suspect she has made a mistake on her sources through the Taisho.

Dan Lusthaus has made a few counter arguments to the idea that Kumarajiva's version is not the earliest, providing a few interesting Chinese sources from early to mid period masters in China, the sort of stuff that I think Nattier would probably never read. But, his arguments still do little if anything to counter her main thesis of the text being originally Chinese, from the Pancavimsati and then back translated into (dodgey) Sanskrit.

I don't know whether this answers your question or not, though!

~ Huifeng :namaste:
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:46 am

Thank you. That was most illuminating.

As for "scholarly," I would use it in one of two ways: 1) doing original research/scholarship in a special area of expertise, etc.; 2) being knowledgeable of the research done by others such a field. Most frequently both definitions apply. I think your reply proves that you have done extensive scholarly readings in this area, and I am grateful for your efforts.
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby spiritnoname » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:25 am

Thanks for the links!

I am so happy HHDL, HHK, and sometimes some Sakya Lamas are doing webcasts now!
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:35 pm

I have another question: Are "Hrdaya" and "Heart" connected linguistically. i.e. through a common Indo-European root? Or are my eyes and ears leading me to jump to such a hypothesis? I did a quickie search and didn't find anything. I would guess anyone with knowledge of Sanskrit would be able to tell right away. Is this so?
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Huifeng » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:56 am

Su DongPo wrote:I have another question: Are "Hrdaya" and "Heart" connected linguistically. i.e. through a common Indo-European root? Or are my eyes and ears leading me to jump to such a hypothesis? I did a quickie search and didn't find anything. I would guess anyone with knowledge of Sanskrit would be able to tell right away. Is this so?


Quite possibly they are cognates, yes. Yet another.
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby eijo » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:42 am

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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:09 pm

Thank you, Venerables.
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:17 am

A friend recommended these readings of the long and short versions of the sutra --

Long Version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_B3EINU2rE
Text:
佛說聖佛母般若波羅蜜多心經
如是我聞。一時世尊。在王舍城鷲峰山中。與大苾芻眾。千二百五十人俱。並諸菩薩摩訶薩眾。而共圍繞。
爾時世尊。即入甚深光明宣說正法三摩地。時觀自在菩薩摩訶薩。在佛會中。而此菩薩摩訶薩。已能修行甚深般若波羅蜜多。觀見五蘊自性皆空。
爾時尊者舍利子。承佛威神。前白觀自在菩薩摩訶薩言。若善男子善女人。於此甚深般若波羅蜜多法門。樂欲修學者。當云何學。
時觀自在菩薩摩訶薩。告尊者舍利子言。汝今諦聽。為汝宣說。若善男子善女人。樂欲修學此甚深般若波羅蜜多法門者。當觀五蘊自性皆空。何名五蘊自性空耶。所謂即色是空。即空是色。色無異於空。空無異於色。受想行識。亦複如是。舍利子。此一切法。如是空相。無所生。無所滅。無垢染。無清淨。無增長。無損減。舍利子。是故空中無色。無受想行識。無眼耳鼻舌身意。無色聲香味觸法。無眼界。無眼識界。乃至無意界。無意識界。無無明。無無明盡。乃至無老死。亦無老死盡。無苦集滅道。無智。無所得。亦無無得。舍利子。由是無得故。菩薩摩訶薩。依般若波羅蜜多相應行故。心無所著。亦無掛礙。以無著無礙故。無有恐怖。遠離一切顛倒妄想。究竟圓寂。所有三世諸佛。依此般若波羅蜜多故。得阿耨多羅三藐三菩提。是故應知。般若波羅蜜多。是廣大明。是無上明。是無等等明。而能息除一切苦惱。是即真實無虛妄法。諸修學者。當如是學。我今宣說般若波羅蜜多大明曰。
tadyatā gate gate pāragate pārasamgate bodhi svāhā
舍利子。諸菩薩摩訶薩。若能誦是般若波羅蜜多明句。是即修學甚深般若波羅蜜多。
爾時世尊。從三摩地安詳而起。贊觀自在菩薩摩訶薩言。善哉善哉。善男子。如汝所說。如是如是。般若波羅蜜多。當如是學。是即真實最上究竟。一切如來亦皆隨喜。
佛說此經已。觀自在菩薩摩訶薩。並諸苾芻。乃至世間天。人。阿修羅。乾闥婆等。一切大眾。聞佛所說皆大歡喜。信受奉行。

Short Version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUt7nd9H ... 7&index=12
Text:
般若波羅蜜多心經
觀自在菩薩 行深般若波羅蜜多時 照見五蘊皆空 度一切苦厄 舍利子 色不異空 空不異色 色即是空 空即是色 受想行識亦復如是 舍利子‧是諸法空相 不生不滅 不垢不淨 不增不減 是故空中無色 無受想行識 無眼耳鼻舌身意 無色聲香味觸法 無眼界乃至無意識界 無無明 亦無無明盡 乃至無老死 亦無老死盡 無苦集滅道 無智亦無得 以無所得故 菩提薩埵 依般若波羅蜜多故 心無罣礙 無罣礙故 無有恐怖 遠離顛倒夢想 究竟涅盤 三世諸佛 依般若波羅蜜多故 得阿耨多羅三藐三菩提 故知般若波羅蜜多 是大神咒 是大明咒 是無上咒 是無等等咒 能除一切苦 真實不虛 故說般若波羅蜜多咒‧即說咒曰‧揭諦‧揭諦‧波羅揭諦‧波羅僧揭諦‧菩提薩婆訶
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:41 am

Hannya Shingyo
Chanted in Japanese with romanized subtitles --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUziCRr ... re=related
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:51 am

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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:47 pm

Can anyone tell me why the Heart Sutra is addressed to Śāriputra?
:reading:
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:53 pm

Huifeng wrote:Not that scholarly, really. But, if anyone wants more scholarly juice on this topic, I would refer them here:
Heart Sutra and Large Prajnaparamita relationship.


Huifeng,

I've tried this link a few times in recent days and it doesn't seem to be working. Do you have a better link, or can you or anyone confirm that it is okay? I don't get the usual error messages -- the connection just hangs out in the bardo.

Thanks --
Dongpo
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Re: HHDL Talks on Heart Sutra

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:40 am

Some more resources --

From Dharma Net: "The Heart Sutra Study Corner"
Includes audio readings in Chinese, English, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, and Tibetan; text translations; excerpts from several noteworthy books; web links and dharma talks on the sutra.
http://www.dharmanet.org/heart_sutra.htm

Nadja Van Ghuele, "The heart sutra in Japanese explained"
Focuses on Japanese calligraphy and the sutra.
http://www.theartofcalligraphy.com/hear ... anese.html

Heart Sutra/Study Notes for 2010
Texts, notes, and a brief bibliography.
http://www.bluewaterbuddhist.org/study.htm

The Prajna Paramita Heart Sutra
English translation with commentary; pdf e-book from buddhanet.net
http://buddhanet.net/pdf_file/heart_s2.pdf
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Re: Heart Sutra Study

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:02 am

To answer my own question, above, "Why Sariputra," this commentary suggests --

Turning to and addressing Sariputra, the Buddha reiterated the essential point for the benefi t of those not understanding clearly. Sariputra was the best of the best, the most advanced sravaka, or hearer, renowned for his sagacity. According to an established Indian custom regarding personal names, a person could decide to use either his or her motherís or fatherís name, or both. The word sariputra (chiu lu tzu in Chinese) literally means a certain species of waterfowl similar to an egret. Sariputra chose to use the name of his mother, who was said by those who knew her to have luminous eyes like that particular bird. She had the reputation of surpassing her brothers in wisdom and keen spirit. Sariputraís mother was an adept of the heterodox path, and, as her name suggests, she was a person of the highest wisdom.


http://buddhanet.net/pdf_file/heart_s2.pdf
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Re: Heart Sutra Study

Postby ground » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:14 am

When there arises the state of exhaustion caused by the multitude of commentaries one may eventually be able to perceive the sutra itself.

Kind regards
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Re: Heart Sutra Study

Postby Su DongPo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:28 am

TMingyur wrote:When there arises the state of exhaustion caused by the multitude of commentaries one may eventually be able to perceive the sutra itself.

Kind regards


I am not there yet, but I get your point.
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