Climate Change: We're Doomed

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:42 am


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smcj
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby smcj » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:50 am

Don't take me too seriously.

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dharmagoat
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:58 am


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dharmagoat
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby dharmagoat » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:02 am


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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:31 am

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:39 am


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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:16 am


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smcj
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby smcj » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:27 am

Don't take me too seriously.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:57 am

. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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smcj
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby smcj » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:14 am

Don't take me too seriously.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:21 am

We must have misunderstood each other. If you ask me, the matter is already decided. I am confident there's anthropogenic climate change happening before our very eyes.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Zhen Li
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Zhen Li » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:15 pm

Dharmagoat - I was addressing Kim in the paragraph where I refer to her there, and you in the others.

Kim - I accept the sources I do because they aren't full of contradictions and haven't been made unfalsifiable.

Making unfalsifiable hypotheses is a common cultic technique, because it means that no matter what evidence is provided to the contrary, they will believe the hypothesis. For instance, all empirical deviations from the prediction are explained away as being an effect of what the prediction occurs is happening :? . All arguments to the contrary aren't to be considered because they come from people who reject the infallible guru :shock: . If the holy text says it's true, it is necessarily true, like when it claims that there is a consensus, even though none such exists :roll: .

Moreover, another common feature of cults is a belief in a coming apocalypse -- you must take action now to avert it! :jedi:

Of course, of the thousands of predicted end-of-the-worlds, none occurred, hence why we are here. Whenever you see people trying to scare you into believing something by threatening that you'll die if you don't, even though there's no conclusive evidence, you know that their arguments are bankrupt. :crazy:

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Zhen Li
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Zhen Li » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:37 pm

Also, another reason 'why', is that AGW propagandists have systematically denied the public access to data, and knowingly falsified information.

"This justification would not have survived any peer review, in any journal that I'm willing to publish in."

Despite the fact that there's no consensus among peer reviewed data, and your graph pages back uses flawed methodology as I pointed out, the fact that AGW propagandists rely on peer review means nothing if the data they're submitting for peer review is falsified. :oops:

And despite that, fundamentally the argumentation of AGW propagandists fails in that it shifts the focus, knowingly, to temperature data (including falsified data), despite the fact that the real crux of the issue is in assumptions about feedbacks which the models make. If the models are right, the climate history of the world would not be the same as it is -- just like creationism, despite the fact that we have geological records past 4 billion years, they still believe, with their unfalisifiable hypotheses, that the world is only a few thousand years old. There really is no difference here, it's the same dishonesty. :thumbsup:

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Nemo
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Nemo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:07 pm

America is very sick. Everyone else in the world understands climate change. How is climate change a plot? It's simply the consensus. It was a theory in the 80's and has turned out to be confirmed. Being an unknowing sock puppet of global energy conglomerates is creepy.

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Malcolm
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:16 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Malcolm
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:25 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Zhen Li
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Zhen Li » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:05 pm

Have you ever tried applying for research grants?

I had a look at the process with my provincial government a few months ago, and there are boxes of key terms which you can check. If your research deals with key terms in these areas, you're more likely to get funding. One of the boxes was for women and gender studies, and there was a box for climate change research too. These are two of the topics which get some of the highest funding, no surprise then that now climate change is also a feminist topic.

People don't set out to do a project which makes or breaks massive theories like AGW, they research specific topics and collect data in specific areas. But convincing the government to keep funding such research means convincing them that this is a matter which the government both needs to take seriously because it may be responsible, and needs to take action which can work. The grant process is, in fact, highly political, and each project provides parliament with brief lay-terms summaries.

If studying climate were just business as usual from day to day, like, say, recording migratory patterns, then it'll probably still get funding, but those numbers are not likely to make you a millionaire like this fellow: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... abuse.html and this fellow http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/18/d ... de-income/

Not to mention the book deals and movie sales from the hype. Then there's of course the fact that before the hype the stocks of renewable energy sources and electric car companies was relatively equal to its value, compared to the height of the hype a few years ago, when they would have made any investor a small fortune. Of course, I do support renewable energy, but that's beyond the point. If you are just investing in oil stocks, you know you won't be making much more than they're currently worth.

There are many incentives to promoting the idea of AGW. Even accepting all the AGW premises, you still have uncertainty due to the unpredictability of the system -- let's face it, there has been, and probably never will be, reliable ways of predicting climate change. Some people won't be convinced that the premises of AGW don't hold up to scrutiny until we really do have too little carbon based energy sources to utilise and they still see CO2 levels rising and falling with no help from us.

In the end, remember that this is almost all government led. The millions made by Hansen are mostly from government funded institutions, prizes and grants. People in government benefit with jobs and money, that's the bottom line. So long as government as it currently works exists, bureaucracy will keep increasing, and they'll keep paying themselves more and more because they have the monopoly on violence through taxation. Is there a solution to this problem? Not immediately, no. But vox populi vox dei. It doesn't matter what the real state of science is, it doesn't matter that there isn't a real consensus in institutions of higher learning, what works, works according to the simple equation of: public opinion + potential bureaucratic profit = public policy.

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Malcolm
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:44 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

tatpurusa
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby tatpurusa » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:01 pm


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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change: We're Doomed

Postby Kim O'Hara » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:11 pm



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