YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ? - Dhamma Wheel

Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Adrien
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: France

Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Adrien » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:35 am

Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:54 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Adrien
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: France

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Adrien » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:30 am

Yes I do, and I don't think the sutta is ambiguous about that... Why are you asking ? You don't ?
Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:50 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Adrien
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: France

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Adrien » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:55 am

Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2637
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:03 am

Dipa Ma said that she was at least an Anagami. And she said that she felt negative emotions, just that she didn't suffer with them. Her words were "they do not burn". (curiously, that's what I think Daniel Ingram says...)
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:20 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:47 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Adrien
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: France

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Adrien » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:06 pm

Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:11 pm

How comes that you think the "it" is about pain? - > "fruit of the kamma"
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
Adrien
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm
Location: France

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Adrien » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:28 pm

I would say that the pain is the fruit of Angulimala's kamma.

I'm sorry Hanzee, but I have the feeling that your questions aren't helping the thread. If you have ideas, or answers, please express them directly. If you have other questions, would you mind asking them via pm ? That way the thread would stay short and neat, which may allow more people to read and answer it.

Anyway, thank you for your interest.
Please don't hesitate to correct my english if you feel to

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:32 pm

?? Who would feel pain, there are just wounds and blood. It's just that Angulimala might have thought, that after attaining of nibbana, kamma would no more ripe. It does anyway, but one is no more touched. "The fruit of the kamma that would have burned you in hell for many years...."

The pain is something that comes up in ones own perception and can even touch people who are totally not involved. How comes that you feel pain, when you hear, read, see blood?
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:07 pm

Ajahn Maha Bua, when he was describing his experience of attaining arhantship, wept at the memory as he described the experience. This lead to detractors publicly commenting he couldn't have achieved 'true' bodhi because if he had, he wouldn't show such emotion. He said in a follow-up commentary that it was foolish to think an arhant couldn't weep. That it was the skhandas that wept, but the citta of an arhant was unaffected. Perhaps something to consider in this discussion.

BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby santa100 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:54 pm

Adrien wrote:
"Can a Buddha experience weariness and annoyance ?"

Yes, His "body" still can. The World Honored One attained freedom from samsara, not a steel body that is impervious to physical pains. Due to the big limitation of common expression language, we need to interprete the Buddha's common expression of "there would result but weariness and annoyance to me" to mean the crude Five Aggregates, not "Himself", for an Enlightened One has completely eliminated all conceits about "I", "mine", and "myself".

"Bear with it, brahman! Bear with it!"

Same idea as the first question, just common language expression. As a matter of fact, I'd be surprised if I saw the Enlightened One saying nothing when seeing His noble disciple coming back with "head broken open and dripping with blood, his bowl broken, and his outer robe ripped to shreds"!!

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby whynotme » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:14 am

Please stop following me

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:22 am

Wasn't there a story of the Buddha losing a tear, when Mara told him that he will not disapear and continue his ways? (it can be that it is just a story)

But of course, a tear naturally arises if we have dust in the eye (to use this similie on more that only the perception of vedana). How ever, has the purpose to wash out the dirt.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby whynotme » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:53 am

Please stop following me

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:09 am

It was just a try of a multilayer approach to the similie of dust in the eyes. You know, some are very attached to body and physicality and many very attached to feelings and mentality. I guess there is still dust coming along and there will be still tears to wash them away again and again. Maybe it's just that mentality and physicality is no more dismixed and wrong understood, not to speak of awarness to close the eyes when storm start to arise.

Sometimes awarness is so strong, that we even would to twinkle for hours which would easily damage our eyes.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

whynotme
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby whynotme » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:33 am

Please stop following me

User avatar
Hanzze
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:47 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Arahants still experiencing pain AND suffering ?

Postby Hanzze » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:07 am

If I would be playful I would now answer: "IMO, don't use your awareness to judge an arahant awareness."

"Look at the content of that story, he wept when he remembered the experience" ahh, you talk about Ajahn Maha Bua. You might be right, but I don't know what has happened later. Some on there way to Arahantship cry even a lot and sometimes we do never hear stories after such happens and from later on.

Don't worry to much, you not on the wrong lane with your thought but it's somehow a waste of time to indentify Arahants, its good to know and be sure that there are some even not so seen.
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 64 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine