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Path to Buddhahood - Page 10 - Dhamma Wheel

Path to Buddhahood

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 am


vinasp
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby vinasp » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:00 am

Hi everyone,

"It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that in one world-system at
one and the same time there should arise two Arahants who are Fully Enlightened
Ones. But, monks, it is quite possible for a single Arahant, a Fully Enlightened
One, to arise."

[PTS, Gradual Sayings, p.26, Chapter XV, #5. Translation by F L Woodward.]
[DPR Anguttara, book 1, #277]

My interpretation: Quite correct. In my world-system it is impossible for two arahants
to arise. And in your world-system, it is also impossible for two arahants to arise.

Regards, Vincent.

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mikenz66
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:17 am


vinasp
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby vinasp » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:17 am

Hi everyone,

"The Blessed One said: "Monks, whatever in the cosmos — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations with their contemplatives & priests royalty & common people — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That do I know." - [Kalaka Sutta.]

My reading: Whatever in the totality of one's experience, is seen, heard, sensed, cognized:
That do I know. That I directly know. The Buddha knows only the things in his own experience.

The whole point of this sutta is that the Buddha sees visible forms, but: "does not
conceive of a visible thing as apart from sight; he does not conceive of an unseen;
he does not conceive of a 'thing-worth-seeing'; he does not conceive of a seer."

He does not add conceived things to that which is actually seen. This is called direct knowledge.

Regards, Vincent.

santa100
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Ven. Thanisarro's intro. note to the Kalaka Sutta:

"Even though the Buddha has deep understanding, he doesn't take a stance on any of it"

Which means that the Tathagata knows and comprehends whatsoever is seen, heard, comprised, attained, searched into, etc., in the whole world, but he is not subject/attached to it..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:52 pm


santa100
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:00 pm

Quick simple example, unlike us, He wouldn't need to rely on Internet connection to search for a particular Dhamma topic to prove a point in a debate. He simple set His attention to the topic and He'll know it. Call it omniscience or anything you like. But I'm pretty sure that He wouldn't even bother getting all caught up with a debate as He made His point in the Kalaka Sutta.. :smile:

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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:05 pm


santa100
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:35 pm

Why not? There's no way to completely rule out that possibility. So, are you completely certain that He's incapable of doing that?
Last edited by santa100 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:40 pm


santa100
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:49 pm

Well, then it's a matter of our difference in seeing the scope of "omniscience". Imho, "...Whatever in the cosmos — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations with their contemplatives & priests, their royalty & common people — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect" is certainly within the scope of "counting the number of insect species"..However, I don't think we have to go so far as saying His possesses a steel body that is impervious to back pain or physical discomfort..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:54 pm


santa100
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:58 pm

Once again, that's your interpretation and your take on whether "counting the number of insect species" is part of omniscience. I see it differently. It's that simple..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:12 pm


Ryuejaku
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Ryuejaku » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:24 pm

50-70 more not bad in no rush

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Dmytro
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby Dmytro » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:16 pm



santa100
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby santa100 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:30 pm

Actually, if we put SN 5.265 right next to AN 4.024, we'll see the clear difference in the scope of the Buddha's capability versus His noble disciples. Let's start with the SN excerpt:

"When the four bases for spiritual power have been developed and cultivated in this way, a bhikkhu understands the minds of other beings and person, having encompassed them with his own mind. He understands a mind with lust, hatred, delusion,..."

Now, compare to the AN excerpt:

"Whatever in the cosmos — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations with their contemplatives & brahmans royalty & common people — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That do I know. Whatever in the cosmos — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations with their contemplatives & brahmans, their royalty & common people — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That I directly know." So, consider "Whatever in the cosmos" that still being "sought after" or "pondered by the intellect", it's safe to conclude that not only the Buddha clearly has access to other beings' mind (you don't even need to be a Buddha for crying out loud, as pointed out by SN above), but He also know the "whatever in the cosmos" that other beings are still "pondering" about..Call it omniscience or samma-sambodhi or whatever term you see fit..

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mikenz66
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:21 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:59 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Path to Buddhahood

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:10 am



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