Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby LastLegend » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:27 am

Sutra:

Initially, I entered the flow through hearing and forgot objective states. Since the sense-objects and sense-organs were quiet, the two characteristics of movement and stillness crystallized and did not arise. After that, gradually advancing, the hearing and what was heard both disappeared. Once the hearing was ended, there was nothing to rely on, and awareness and the objects of awareness became empty. When the emptiness of awareness reached an ultimate perfection, emptiness and what was being emptied then also ceased to be. Since production and extinction were gone, still extinction was revealed.


Commentary:

Initially, I entered the flow through hearing and forgot objective states. With the wisdom of hearing, one listens inside, not outside. Not chasing after the objects of sound means not following them out. Earlier, the text spoke of not following the six sense-organs and not being turned by them. This is known as, Returning the hearing to hear the self-nature.

Returning the hearing means not listening to external sounds but turning back instead to hear your own self-nature. It means,

Gathering in your body and mind.
It means not seeking outside.
Turn the light around and shine it within.

Here the text says that Guan Shi Yin Bodhisattva "entered the flow," which means he returned and listened to the self-nature. Enter the flow of the dharma-nature of a sage. He "forgot the objective states." All the "dust", the defiling objects of the six-sense objects as perceived by the six sense-organs, was forgotten.

Since the sense-objects and sense-organs were quiet, the two characteristics of movement and stillness crystallized and did not arise. The source of the six sense-organs and six sense-objects ceased to be. It was severed. Here he entered the flow of his own self-nature. When that happens, your self-nature is still and quiet. When this quietude reaches an ultimate point, the appearance of movement and stillness ceases as well. Basically, movement appears as movement and stillness as stillness, but now, although these two characteristics are as clear as crystal, they do not arise. After that, gradually advancing, the hearing and what was heard both disappeared. As this pure and clear state of quiet increased, as day by day it became more full and complete, the hearing that was capable of hearing the self-nature eventually disappeared. It, too, was gone. The ability to hear and the objects of hearing both vanished. The organ of the ear was capable of hearing, and the self-nature was what was being heard, but now they, too, were gone. Once the hearing was ended, there was nothing to rely on. Since the hearing-nature was gone, there was no attachment. At that time it was "producing the mind that does not dwell anywhere."

Awareness and the objects of awareness became empty. Even the perception of awareness vanished, was emptied out. When the emptiness of awareness reached an ultimate perfection, emptiness and what was being emptied then also ceased to be. The emptiness of the nature of awareness reached an ultimate state of perfection. Then the mind capable of creating vanished, as did the states that were made empty, so that then there wasn't even any emptiness! As long as emptiness remains, you're still attached to emptiness. But now, for Guan Yin Bodhisattva there wasn't even any emptiness.

Since production and extinction were gone, still extinction was revealed. Since the mind subject to production and extinction vanished, the genuine bliss of still extinction manifested. That state is inexpressibly blissful.

M3 He explains how in accord with the substance he gives rise to the function.
N1 He lists the two sources.


http://www.cttbusa.org/shurangama5/shurangama5_12.asp
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby Astus » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:21 am

This sounds so much like a state of not simply being deaf but even dead mindless.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby LastLegend » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:32 am

What does that mean? Explain more please.
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby Astus » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:45 am

Even the perception of awareness vanished, was emptied out. When the emptiness of awareness reached an ultimate perfection, emptiness and what was being emptied then also ceased to be. ... Then the mind capable of creating vanished, as did the states that were made empty, so that then there wasn't even any emptiness!

I mean that for instance the above quote sounds like total annihilation. It equates emptiness with ceasing, with non-existence. As I see it, that is not the view of the middle way, it is an extreme view.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby Will » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:54 pm

Astus wrote:Even the perception of awareness vanished, was emptied out. When the emptiness of awareness reached an ultimate perfection, emptiness and what was being emptied then also ceased to be. ... Then the mind capable of creating vanished, as did the states that were made empty, so that then there wasn't even any emptiness!

I mean that for instance the above quote sounds like total annihilation. It equates emptiness with ceasing, with non-existence. As I see it, that is not the view of the middle way, it is an extreme view.


Says Master Hua: "there was no attachment. At that time it was "producing the mind that does not dwell anywhere." Further, he remarks that the state is "inexpressibly blissful".

A non-attached & blissful state is hardly 'total annihilation', nor is it an 'extreme view' but a view central to the path.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby Astus » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:00 pm

Will wrote:Says Master Hua: "there was no attachment. At that time it was "producing the mind that does not dwell anywhere." Further, he remarks that the state is "inexpressibly blissful".

A non-attached & blissful state is hardly 'total annihilation', nor is it an 'extreme view' but a view central to the path.


What is such a state where there is no hearing (or any other of the six consciousnesses) if not the cessation of all phenomena? And if what is meant is rather not being attached to phenomena, it is not the cessation or vanishing of anything but only attachment itself.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby Will » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:08 pm

Astus wrote:
Will wrote:Says Master Hua: "there was no attachment. At that time it was "producing the mind that does not dwell anywhere." Further, he remarks that the state is "inexpressibly blissful".

A non-attached & blissful state is hardly 'total annihilation', nor is it an 'extreme view' but a view central to the path.


What is such a state where there is no hearing (or any other of the six consciousnesses) if not the cessation of all phenomena? And if what is meant is rather not being attached to phenomena, it is not the cessation or vanishing of anything but only attachment itself.


I guess you will not try it yourself - Happy new year.
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: Meditation from Shurangama Sutra Volume 5

Postby Jinzang » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:53 am

Even when the six sense consciousness cease, there are still the seventh and eighth consciousness. It sounds like the state described here is equivalent to the seventh dhyana, the sphere of nothingness.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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