In the bone yard wrote:One problem is the dictionary we use to translate words.
Different dictionaries will have different words for a tibetan word.
Maybe a word that defines the meaning was not chosen properly.
We translate meaning, not words!
So what happens when a translator attempts to translate tantra when he doesn't have the realization (meaning) of what he's translating?
How is he or she supposed to translate the meaning?
...
"Do not associate with foolish beings."
...
Good points but it's from sutra (actually shastra) not tantra.
And anyway we discuss the translations and the meaning.
Tibetan isn't Hebrew where really alternative meanings are in fact derivable from the text. In many cases people are debating alternative words for essentially the same semantic value in a translation. Of course I'm not on a translation committee, have not seen really difficult problems yet and am still just beginning study of Tibetan.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
I have never forgotten this story from the biography I read in my teens of the Trapp Family Singers. They arrived in America with very little knowledge of English, and set about reading various books to sharpen their skills. Idioms, colloquialisms, etc., are difficult to translate, as one example from their story shows. The phrase they didn't understand was "The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak." They dutifully consulted their dictionaries, and came up with "The ghost wanted to, but the meat was soft."
justsit wrote:Funny story about the nuances of translation -
I have never forgotten this story from the biography I read in my teens of the Trapp Family Singers. They arrived in America with very little knowledge of English, and set about reading various books to sharpen their skills. Idioms, colloquialisms, etc., are difficult to translate, as one example from their story shows. The phrase they didn't understand was "The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak." They dutifully consulted their dictionaries, and came up with "The ghost wanted to, but the meat was soft."
Translations! Be careful.
But the immediate solution would have been to just to look up Matthew 26:41 in the Luther Bible.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
justsit wrote: "The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak." They dutifully consulted their dictionaries, and came up with "The ghost wanted to, but the meat was soft."
Lol!
Actually that is how I translate.
“We are each living in our own soap opera. We do not see things as they really are. We see only our interpretations. This is because our minds are always so busy...But when the mind calms down, it becomes clear. This mental clarity enables us to see things as they really are, instead of projecting our commentary on everything.” Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
In the bone yard wrote:One problem is the dictionary we use to translate words.
Different dictionaries will have different words for a tibetan word.
Maybe a word that defines the meaning was not chosen properly.
We translate meaning, not words!
So what happens when a translator attempts to translate tantra when he doesn't have the realization (meaning) of what he's translating?
How is he or she supposed to translate the meaning?
...
"Do not associate with foolish beings."
...
Good points but it's from sutra (actually shastra) not tantra.
And anyway we discuss the translations and the meaning.
Tibetan isn't Hebrew where really alternative meanings are in fact derivable from the text. In many cases people are debating alternative words for essentially the same semantic value in a translation. Of course I'm not on a translation committee, have not seen really difficult problems yet and am still just beginning study of Tibetan.
Kirt
My comments regarding tantra translations aren't directed toward the passage. It's extra that you don't have to pay for.
I see no reason why we can't use alternate words for sutra. Translations of sutra (causation), not too much harm can come of it.
Not to prove a point by any means, but I have seen the passage (or the meaning) used in tantric teaching.
justsit wrote:Funny story about the nuances of translation -
I have never forgotten this story from the biography I read in my teens of the Trapp Family Singers. They arrived in America with very little knowledge of English, and set about reading various books to sharpen their skills. Idioms, colloquialisms, etc., are difficult to translate, as one example from their story shows. The phrase they didn't understand was "The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak." They dutifully consulted their dictionaries, and came up with "The ghost wanted to, but the meat was soft."
