Kaliyuga

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Kaliyuga

Postby norman » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:34 pm

That's quite like asking why the pawns have to die while you're playing chess. It's part of the game. If you just want to talk about whether it's likely that things are getting worse, fire away. I think you'll get a better response on a forum devoted to politics or Greenpeace. I'm not being sarcastic.

If you want to understand why you're thinking that way in the first place, and what causes it to happen, and if I am not contributing, you're probably gonna have to ask someone else.

Huseng wrote:How does any of what you're saying contribute the conversation?
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby fragrant herbs » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:49 pm

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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Tatsuo » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:40 pm

To mention the Buddhist calculations for the beginning of mappo: In China mappo was considered to have started 522 and in Japan in the Nara Period 552 was seen as the first year of mappo, whereas later, in the Heian Period 1052 was identified as the first year of mappo. All schools of the Kamakura Period (Zen, Jodo, Nichiren) refer to that idea.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby fragrant herbs » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:05 pm

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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:24 pm

Never mind.

:cheers:
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Tatsuo » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:59 pm

Mappo isn't about fear at all. It is a natural process, that the dharma will come to an end (and reappear afterwards). It keeps us mindful, that we practice Buddhism correctly and keep the precepts. And Nichiren for example was very positive about mappo, because in mappo the Lotus Sutra is promulgated. It was posted somewhere else in this forum, but "The Buddha Speaks the Ultimate Extinction of the Dharma Sutra" might be of interest.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby fragrant herbs » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:17 pm

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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby nirmal » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:30 pm

Tantra calls this age the kali age, an age of darkness, no doubt about that. The way out - meditation. Let man start the inner war within themselves by which they would succeed not only in the best condition of peace but also in attaining the salvation for all mankind. Man,I believe, has to take the shortest path.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby fragrant herbs » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:47 pm

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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby nirmal » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:37 pm

It is predicted that at the end of the Kali Yuga, Lord Shiva shall destroy the universe and all the physical body would undergo a great transformation. After such dissolution, Lord Brahma would recreate the universe and mankind will become the 'Beings of Truth' once again.


I have to disagree with this quote

Tantric Hinduism talks about escaping death. For example, Sivananda in his 'Kundalini Yoga" states this."It is said that when all 12 aditayas scorch the world with their burning rays, he would through his Apas Dharma reach up to the akasa. When fierce gales arise splintering rocks' he would be in the akasa through Agni Dharma. When the world with maha meru are under water, he would float through them with his Vayu Dharma."

Now, if this is so,when the air is burning, where will he escape? It is said that even the heavens of form(including Brahma's heaven) will be destroyed by the major calamaties.Even Lord Brahma cannot escape.

Under the sistem of ignorance, there is no way at all to escape death but under the system of voidness and enlightenment, there is neither birth or death.He who desires to be rid of birth and death, should give up the philosophy of creation and destruction and believe in the philosophy of neither creation nor destruction.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Jikan » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:03 pm

The most important thing about the doctrine of Kali Yuga (or mappo for that matter) has to do with practice.

Time is short. Circumstances are not the best but it is still possible to practice... for now. Some practices are more effective than others at present, so you need to know which is which, and to devote yourself without reservation and without holding back to such a practice. Focus! Distractions are many. Fill up the tank and get on the road.

Now is not a time to waste time. That's the point of this teaching.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:42 pm

MI have been taught that certain HYT practices are more effective during these 'degenerate times', whilst others will become less beneficial and harder to perform.

On balance, I'm more concerned that my practice should be urgent for the reason that I may die at any time. Shantideva expressed this powerfully.

I think the second is a higher priority but it is thankfully possible to combine both and practise beneficially right now. ;)
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Astus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:45 pm

As a side note, the age of Dharma decline should not be confused with the social and samsaric periods. Buddhas may appear in different periods of social ups and downs and the Dharma may be absent even in golden ages.

Also, here's a fascinating TED talk about our dark age: Steven Pinker on The Myth of Violence
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Indrajala » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:06 am

Astus wrote:Also, here's a fascinating TED talk about our dark age: Steven Pinker on The Myth of Violence


He demonstrates that some male hunter-gatherers have a considerably higher likelihood of being killed in warfare than US-European males, but that doesn't mean it has been universal since the dawn of humanity.

He quotes the bible and looks at European sources, but what about the rest of the world like Asia and Africa? His talk is very Euro-centric always talking about what Europe was like some centuries ago. One needs to look at civilizations in Asia and Africa too.

His warfare statistics don't address that causalities in war now are mostly civilians.

Maybe there is less violence in post-industrial Europe and North America compared to the Middle Ages of Europe? Sure, that makes sense. What about the rest of the world?
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Indrajala » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:55 am

Here is something quite interesting I've verified using astronomy software.

As Richard Thompson points out in his book if you examine the formal date when kaliyuga is said to have begun there actually is planetary alignment. This is a simulation looking east from Varanasi on Feb. 18th 3102 BCE.

Image
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby nirmal » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:07 pm

Huseng wrote:Here is something quite interesting I've verified using astronomy software.

As Richard Thompson points out in his book if you examine the formal date when kaliyuga is said to have begun there actually is planetary alignment. This is a simulation looking east from Varanasi on Feb. 18th 3102 BCE.

Image


This is interesting, Huseng.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby neverdowell » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:54 am

Very interesting indeed, Huseng! Personally I think this is an important fact to teach to others when teaching Buddhism. Buddhism is the way to happiness, but one has to drive home that this current life is not the time and place where happiness is to be experienced, primarily. This is because it is Kali Yuga. We hope for higher rebirths and, of course, Enlightenment.

To develop bodhichitta, which is the actual practice, you need to develop such compassion that you simply cannot bear others being tormented by suffering. But in order to develop this compassion, you must know exactly how you yourself are plagued by suffering. And you must understand that the whole of samsara is by nature suffering. But first you must fear the lower realms, for without this you will have no repudiation of celestial and human happiness. You must therefore train your mind in the small- and medium- scope parts of the path. -- Pabongka Rinpoche
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby KeithBC » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:48 am

Huseng wrote:Here is something quite interesting I've verified using astronomy software.

As Richard Thompson points out in his book if you examine the formal date when kaliyuga is said to have begun there actually is planetary alignment. This is a simulation looking east from Varanasi on Feb. 18th 3102 BCE.

It's not much of an alignment, as the group spans more than 60 degrees of the sky. The planets are always going to appear to be in more-or-less a straight line across the sky. It's called the Ecliptic. An alignment is when they occupy a small portion of that straight line. 60 degrees is an interesting and uncommon grouping, but it's not a particularly small portion and therefore can't be called much of an alignment.

Also, it would not have been a visible grouping, as it occurs in the daytime sky. Portions of it would have been visible at dawn or dusk, but the whole group would never have been visible.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby Indrajala » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:12 am

KeithBC wrote:Also, it would not have been a visible grouping, as it occurs in the daytime sky. Portions of it would have been visible at dawn or dusk, but the whole group would never have been visible.



Right, but astronomers don't need to see planets to know where they are in the sky. They have a predictable course and someone with solid calculations should know where they are in the sky at any given time. You don't actually need to physically see the objects.

Also five of the planets are within 10 degrees of the Vedic reference star of Zeta Piscium, which is apparently the important point rather than the actual visible alignment, though it still is unique.

If I ever get the chance I will discuss the significance of this with an Indian astrologer and see what they have to say.
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Re: Kaliyuga

Postby KeithBC » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:24 am

Huseng wrote:Also five of the planets are within 10 degrees of the Vedic reference star of Zeta Piscium, which is apparently the important point rather than the actual visible alignment, though it still is unique.

Sorry, I can excuse errors of interpretation, but not errors of fact. Using Stellarium, the same software you used to generate the graphic above, here are the angular distances from Zeta Piscium to each of the planets, excluding Mars, which is so far away from the grouping as to be irrelevant:

Jupiter: 19 degrees
Venus: 23 degrees
Uranus: 27 degrees
Mercury: 29 degrees
Saturn: 44 degrees
Neptune: 61 degrees

In other words, there is not a single one of them that is within ten degrees of that star. Sorry.

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