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New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Goob
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Goob » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:05 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:10 am


Goob
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Goob » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:20 am


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badscooter
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby badscooter » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:11 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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badscooter
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby badscooter » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:19 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

twelph
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby twelph » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:05 pm


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badscooter
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby badscooter » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Oh I see.

Thanks :smile:

with metta
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:14 pm


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badscooter
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby badscooter » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:17 pm

Here is a link that might be of interest... It sheds some light of what VT is saying but in a more vipassana friendly way.


with metta
:anjali:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:06 am


ohnofabrications
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby ohnofabrications » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:04 pm

I am usually a big fan of thanissaro's, but he loses me here.

I would say the two methods are in fact different but still clearly aimed in the same direction. Let's take a practical example. I feel very angry because I had the perception that someone thought I was stupid. In my mind I am replaying the scenario, there is mental vedana and tension in my chest. If I recognized this and I was practicing bhante style, I would simply be aware of the thoughts and feelings, the thoughts would stop for a moment as I stopped fueling them, but I would forget to just engage in bare attention and would instead start recreating the thoughts. I would then again remember, through noticing that it is suffering to trap myself in that thought-world and I would go back to just attention. The tensions and mental vedana would likely persist as subtle thoughts are still occurring, but slowly it would die out, I would move towards just experiencing the world without creating these unfortunate mindstates. Over time, doing this again and again, I would slowly recognize more and more that the pure awareness is better, and furthermore the pure awareness would become more and more pure until eventually I'd become capable of truly desiring nothing. Fabrications are intentional and impermanent so if you stop intentionally creating (some of them) there will be less of them, and if you keep working at this you will get better at the method (practice makes perfect) and you will be able to fabricate none of them.
:woohoo:

With thanissaro's method, I would, upon recognizing the unfortunate mindstate begin to actively combat it, as he suggests. I would alter my pattern of breathing, working through the tension and mental vedana intentionally with visualization and directing breath energy. I would re-formulate my narratives about the scenario - were my rights really violated? does that person thinking of me as stupid really harm me? As such I would eventually exert a fabrication to still the unskillful fabrication. Over time I would do this a lot, lose my desire for negative fabrication and only fabricate jhanas, I would then apply essentially the method above to stop fabricating entirely/desiring nothing.
:woohoo:

Is one of these better? I'd have to say that from the pali canon the buddha's stance would be that the latter was better, but the former would still work, clearly in non-theravadan schools such as soto zen or dzogchen the former is relied on exclusively or almost exclusively.

I look forward to your criticisms - do you agree that both methods would work in roughly the way I suggested?

ohnofabrications
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby ohnofabrications » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:37 pm


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marc108
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby marc108 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:16 pm

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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Anagarika
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Anagarika » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:05 pm


ohnofabrications
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby ohnofabrications » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:59 pm

Last edited by ohnofabrications on Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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badscooter
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby badscooter » Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:47 am

:goodpost:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

twelph
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby twelph » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:31 am

Ohnofabrications, do you by any chance have a reference for the following " I would re-formulate my narratives about the scenario - were my rights really violated? does that person thinking of me as stupid really harm me? " . It's familiar, I'm just trying to put it into context. It does seem like that would be adding something to the "narrative".

I think it's also worth talking about where Nibbidā(revulsion, disenchantment, to turn away from) comes into the scenario. I know that Thanisarro usually distinguishes between skillfull and unskillful thoughts. The most useful way of describing this feeling that has helped my meditation immensely is the act of removing the "soil" from the roots of the unwholesome state of mind so that it does not grow. I think the debate might be whether watching the thought just come and go is as effective at stopping papanca as this act of turning away? Thoughts?

:anjali:

ohnofabrications
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby ohnofabrications » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:33 pm


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Alex123
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Alex123 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:46 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:35 am



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