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Individual wrote:heart wrote:If you practice Dzogchen or Mahamudra then Guru yoga is the heart. However, Guru yoga have many forms and it is mainly an attitude to live by and not a particular practice. In order to practice Mahamudra or Dzogchen you do have to have some very essential instructions from a qualified master. Once you gained some experience in these instructions, Guru yoga arises by itself. The main point in Vajrayana is to find the Guru and it is not, contrary to what many people believe, an easy thing.
/magnus
Because he's probably off in a forest, cave, or secluded temple somewhere
All the easily available ones just want your time, attention, and money
conebeckham wrote:but isn't Pure Vision quite related to Guru Yoga anyway?
Individual wrote:I don't know it. It's just a guess because no easily accessible Buddhist teacher who calls themselves a "guru" has ever impressed me, therefore logically I must conclude that, if there is some kind of amazing guru, he must be in the woods somewhere, meditating cynically because of his omnipotence.
Individual wrote:conebeckham wrote:Because he's probably off in a forest, cave, or secluded temple somewhere
All the easily available ones just want your time, attention, and money
And you know this how?
I don't know it. It's just a guess because no easily accessible Buddhist teacher who calls themselves a "guru" has ever impressed me, therefore logically I must conclude that, if there is some kind of amazing guru, he must be in the woods somewhere, meditating cynically because of his omnipotence.
narraboth wrote:well, but yes, four levels of tantric buddhism mark higher and higher level of pure vision, and guruyoga is a very powerful and very high method.
Luke wrote:narraboth wrote:well, but yes, four levels of tantric buddhism mark higher and higher level of pure vision, and guruyoga is a very powerful and very high method.
What is the proper definition of "pure vision"? I've seen a few different definitions on the net, and I'm not sure which is correct.
One definition is about seeing everything one's guru does as enlightened activity.
Another definition says that this is about seeing the whole world as your yidam's pure land, hearing all sounds as your yidam's mantra, and seeing all beings (including oneself) as the yidam.
Individual wrote:I must conclude that, if there is some kind of amazing guru, he must be in the woods somewhere, meditating cynically because of his omnipotence.
narraboth wrote:It's possible to attain enlightenment through guruyoga, but guruyoga is not just crying, praying, singing.... that's not gonna to work. You need to do guruyoga properly.

Luke wrote:narraboth wrote:It's possible to attain enlightenment through guruyoga, but guruyoga is not just crying, praying, singing.... that's not gonna to work. You need to do guruyoga properly.
Yes, yes, I know. From what I understand, Guru Yoga is a very precise method like a sadhana.
Don't worry, I won't do it until I've received proper instructions from a guru.
heart wrote:True Guru yoga depends on having a Guru but it is still possible to practice Guru yoga as an aspiration. The lineage prayer should be practiced as a Guru yoga. The seven line prayer to Guru Rinpoche is a complete Guru yoga. Many prayers you already know could be consider Guru yoga. You need a little devotion not any precise instructions.
Luke wrote:heart wrote:True Guru yoga depends on having a Guru but it is still possible to practice Guru yoga as an aspiration. The lineage prayer should be practiced as a Guru yoga. The seven line prayer to Guru Rinpoche is a complete Guru yoga. Many prayers you already know could be consider Guru yoga. You need a little devotion not any precise instructions.
Who better to talk about the "heart of Vajrayana" than Heart himself? Lol.
When you say, "You need a little devotion," you simply mean feeling devotion towards the deities or teachers that one is thinking about during the prayer, right? You didn't necessarily mean devotion towards a living lama when you're practicing Guru Yoga as just an aspiration, right?
Luke wrote:heart wrote:True Guru yoga depends on having a Guru but it is still possible to practice Guru yoga as an aspiration. The lineage prayer should be practiced as a Guru yoga. The seven line prayer to Guru Rinpoche is a complete Guru yoga. Many prayers you already know could be consider Guru yoga. You need a little devotion not any precise instructions.
Who better to talk about the "heart of Vajrayana" than Heart himself? Lol.
When you say, "You need a little devotion," you simply mean feeling devotion towards the deities or teachers that one is thinking about during the prayer, right? You didn't necessarily mean devotion towards a living lama when you're practicing Guru Yoga as just an aspiration, right?
Dhondrub wrote:In the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages at one point you need a living teacher.
heart wrote:When you start on the path of Vajrayana you seldom have a Guru. It is something you have to find. Devotion towards say Tara or Guru Rinpoche and also Longchenpa or Karmapa is a good place to start when training in devotion. To practice Guru yoga as much as possible between sessions is very helpful. Just offer everything you do continuously to the object of your devotion. I am pretty sure this attitude is what will bring a qualified teacher in to your life.

Luke wrote:Thanks for writing this. I have felt a lot of devotion towards Guru Rinpoche for the past year or so, even though I haven't done much of his formal practices. I was also fortunate enough to receive a Guru Rinpoche empowerment over the summer. I think this is part of what's pulling me in the direction of the Nyingma school. Guru Rinpoche's image and mantra are rarely far from my mind. I didn't realize that this devotion I feel was already sort of Guru-yoga-ish.
This force of attraction has already brought me a potential guru. I've signed up for a meditation retreat where I will meet this lama for the first time. I feel great excitement as the event draws nearer.
I no longer hunger for the fancy details of advanced techniques. I just want to merge my mind with Guru Rinpoche's mind and with a living Nyingma lama's mind.
Luke wrote: I no longer hunger for the fancy details of advanced techniques. I just want to merge my mind with Guru Rinpoche's mind and with a living Nyingma lama's mind.
narraboth wrote:What I slightly disagree about what id:heart said is, you can't just rely on 'a little devotion', and you can't take praying as guruyoga unless you know how to do guruyoga. If you know the keypoint, ofcourse you can do lineage prayer as guruyoga, otherwise it's just a prayer.
narraboth wrote:You mentioned 'merge', but what is your idea of merge? Is it like a christian benediction or holy spirit filling you?
I personally think that you can't just take guru, living or not, as an object outside of/different from you.
narraboth wrote:No matter actually how much greater he is than you. A guruyoga with such a strong dualism can't be the supreme path to enlightenment. But we need to have strong devotion still; not a little, we need a strong one.
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