Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:28 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 195 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Posts: 761
Location: Oregon
If Buddhist practitioners of the West don't find support they will not come back to the centers and teachers who don't support them. I really think it's that simple. Isn't that what happened in India regarding Buddhism?

_________________
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am
Posts: 993
If I could try to summarise, I think the point is that those involved in Dharma politics (and fundraising etc.) are often not the best practitioners, and that the people gaining such positions of power in an institutional setting are perhaps promoting the identity of the Dharma, in contrast to those who just get their heads down and practice, who ask for no recognition, and who don't self-promote in the same way - and that there is a clear divide here.

Of course there is a need for people to promote institutions and work such as translating etc. however the essence of practice lies elsewhere, so there is also a need to recognise that which ordinarily lies outside of the institutional framework.

_________________
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am
Posts: 993
This issue clearly cuts two ways.

If someone feels excluded because they were not recognised over another who they perceive to be less realized - they need to work on that.

If an institution recognises inferior practitioners based upon work hours rather than realization - they also need to work on that.

_________________
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am
Posts: 3043
I don’t compare practice with whatever fellows and men having no respect for a me, are (having) my compassion.
No need to prove my equality neither and no need to conquer testosteron, but to conquer my mind just fits.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG_lNuNUVd4


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:06 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Posts: 4612
Location: Baltimore, MD
Minjeay wrote:
...and what they are doing with their time is not practicing to realize spiritual accomplishments, what would mean meditate at least half of the day, cause this actually is what helps you progress with your practice.


No, meditating at least half of the day is not the only means of accomplishment. In fact meditating half the day is not an actual means of accomplishment by itself although if done correctly you will get a positive result.

However practicing 24/7 is the main means to accomplishment. Even so, any practice done will eventually, over many, many lifetimes, get us there just due to karmic imprints. Even just raising one hand in veneration to the Buddha once a day.

I personally find taking the eight Mahayana Vows to be very powerful for myself. Unfortunately I often waste time (or don't have time) later to meditate daily.

However overcoming delusions and developing the perfections, even if not technically on the Path of Perfections, is the real hallmark of progression. An even better real mark of progression is deepening lovingkindness and compassion.

Quote:
If I am asked to give money for someone's practice who in the end does less practice than me as a householder, than obviously something in this system is running wrong.


You are very proud of your practice time but it shouldn't be a source of denigrating others. We have to support one another actually. I'm sorry that you don't feel support from the monastic community.

Kirt

_________________
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


Last edited by kirtu on Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:48 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
'ccept that I am not a monastic, a tulku, or a Tibetan. But if projecting blame makes you feel better, then please feel free to do so.

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 821
Sherab Dorje wrote:

Some of my practices are Tibetan Buddhist Pureland practices. Having been brought up Greek Orthodox Christian (nearly becoming a priest), educated during my youth by Catholic Christian monks and having lived in Christian countries all my life, it is the "other power" aspect that doesn't sit well with me. I have to admit that I am quite enamored by Guru Rinpoches Pureland (Copper Coloured Mountain) though. Sounds like a cool place to hang in in for a few hundred lifetimes. Thing is though, for me, that everything that needs to be done (or not done), needs to be done right here and right now.

"Other power" is a term that shouldn't be used so much to describe PL as Amida lacks omnipotence. Karma is a big obstacle to achieve birth which is why constant repetition of nembutsu is encouraged from Honen's perspective.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:22 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
Nighthawk wrote:
"Other power" is a term that shouldn't be used so much to describe PL as Amida lacks omnipotence. Karma is a big obstacle to achieve birth which is why constant repetition of nembutsu is encouraged from Honen's perspective.
Excuse me if I am wrong but isn't it enough (to guarantee rebirth in Dewachen) just to think of Amitabha once with pure faith and devotion? Isn't that one aspect of his vows?

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:39 pm
Posts: 1270
Location: Gone Bush
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Excuse me if I am wrong but isn't it enough (to guarantee rebirth in Dewachen) just to think of Amitabha once with pure faith and devotion? Isn't that one aspect of his vows?

So the story goes.

_________________
May all beings be happy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 821
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
"Other power" is a term that shouldn't be used so much to describe PL as Amida lacks omnipotence. Karma is a big obstacle to achieve birth which is why constant repetition of nembutsu is encouraged from Honen's perspective.
Excuse me if I am wrong but isn't it enough (to guarantee rebirth in Dewachen) just to think of Amitabha once with pure faith and devotion? Isn't that one aspect of his vows?

It's quite possible but I would never advise that to anyone unless they are on their deathbed. Good to build up some significant merit with daily practice as one of the sutras says those with few merits will not take birth there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:26 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Posts: 4612
Location: Baltimore, MD
dharmagoat wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Excuse me if I am wrong but isn't it enough (to guarantee rebirth in Dewachen) just to think of Amitabha once with pure faith and devotion? Isn't that one aspect of his vows?

So the story goes.


The last moment of consciousness before death is extremely important and exerts a strong influence over rebirth. So there are stories of murderers being executed who happen to see monks and as a result of an instant of virtuous thought are reborn, become monks and gain some attainment.

As Pure Land doctrine developed, there came to be levels rebirth within Pure Lands based on virtue and realization (this is mentioned in one sutra). Some masters have in fact said that to be reborn even in Dewachen is a bit harder than people think so it's not necessarily just reciting 10 mantras to Amitabha even through that is what the sutras say.

Kirt

_________________
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am
Posts: 2776
Quote:
Excuse me if I am wrong but isn't it enough (to guarantee rebirth in Dewachen) just to think of Amitabha once with pure faith and devotion? Isn't that one aspect of his vows?
No.... re-read the Primal 18th Vow up until the 20th together with the other two Sutra texts, the Shorter Amitabha & Contemplation on Amitayus Sutras on what gets one into Sukhavati/Dewachen...

_________________
TWTB BIES OCB DDM BWF


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:34 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Posts: 4612
Location: Baltimore, MD
Sherab Dorje wrote:
'ccept that I am not a monastic, a tulku, or a Tibetan. But if projecting blame makes you feel better, then please feel free to do so.


:o you ... your not a tulku? Or a Tibetan?? Well, I'll be danged.

Kirt

_________________
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:40 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am
Posts: 1468
This topic is now locked for review. In the mean time I'd like everyone to take a look at the ToS and then take a good long hard look at what they've written.

viewtopic.php?f=109&t=12768&view=unread#unread
Specifically No Ad Hominem/Personal Attacks
No Disclosure of Internal Private Messages/Off-Site Emails or Any Type of Private Correspondence Without Prior Consent from the Sender
Be polite. Rudeness in any form will not be tolerated. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant will initially be suspended to give the moderating team time to discuss if there is to be further action.
No Inappropriate Language


Gassho
Seishin

*EDIT* I am unlocking the thread for now. Please keep things polite and on topic. All posts regarding sexism in Buddhism can now be posted in this new thread viewtopic.php?f=66&t=15000&start=0

Thank you for your co-operation
Gassho,
Seishin

_________________
http://tendaiuk.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm
Posts: 577
I personally think that the tulku system makes sense for vajrayana lineage holders.

SOMEONE has to hold and transmit those lineages and that person has to have some sort of talent for it and has to go through a vigorous training. How do you want to insure that on the long run without such a system?

Why are there so far hardly any western lineage holders? Because even with enough "talent" to archieve realisation relatively quickly our upbringing and lifestyle makes it fairly hard to get realized practitioners. So with the tulku system at least someone will uphold and transmit the tradition, even if the majority of disciples will not develop sufficient realization.

If you find the tulku system is too exclusive then I suggest you become a full time yogi and in the forseeable future we have you as the next lineage holder and of course when you are reborn your faithful disciples will insure that your reincarnation will be found and trained from a young age on.

The tulku system is not exclusive. Anyone, male or female can become a bodhisattva on the bhumis or a buddha and therefor a tulku (word meaning nirmanakaya manifestation). It's more democratic than most other religions.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 195 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group