Good stretches for postration.

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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby dzogchungpa » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:01 am

dzogchungpa wrote:Is it actually acceptable to do them that way?

heart wrote:No, of course not. Different traditions.

Malcolm wrote:Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.

I see.
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby supermaxv » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:19 am

Well, in my Ngondro materials from my refuge lama, there are specific guidelines and teachings in regards to the proper forms of prostrations for Ngondro accumulation.
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby Malcolm » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:30 am

supermaxv wrote:Well, in my Ngondro materials from my refuge lama, there are specific guidelines and teachings in regards to the proper forms of prostrations for Ngondro accumulation.


These things are customs, not Dharma.
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby heart » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:32 am

Malcolm wrote:
supermaxv wrote:Well, in my Ngondro materials from my refuge lama, there are specific guidelines and teachings in regards to the proper forms of prostrations for Ngondro accumulation.


These things are customs, not Dharma.


Lately I notice you seem to have a custom to question other customs in the Dharma, is that accurate? :smile:

/magnus
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby byamspa » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:05 am

:popcorn:
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby tomamundsen » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:26 am

Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Is it actually acceptable to do them that way?


No, of course not. Different traditions.

/magnus


Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.

Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:30 am

Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.

Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.

For instance since I'm an old geezer I asked permission to use a raised prostration board, which makes them much easier. I got permission, but my teacher probably wouldn't have given a younger person that same permission.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:33 am

tomamundsen wrote:Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.


No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:39 am

Malcolm wrote:No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.

Since this is actual practice we are talking about, where do you draw the line? Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:51 am

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.

Since this is actual practice we are talking about, where do you draw the line? Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?


There are no rules, my friend., apart from those we choose to follow.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:40 am

Malcolm wrote:
There are no rules, my friend., apart from those we choose to follow.

In my work I sometimes have to go to 3 or 4 different places a week, places I've never been to before. They give me directions and a map on how to get there. Nobody forces me to follow their directions, but if I choose not to follow them I can't blame the guy that made the map if I get lost or if I am late. If I take a shortcut I do so at my own peril.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:48 am

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
There are no rules, my friend., apart from those we choose to follow.

In my work I sometimes have to go to 3 or 4 different places a week, places I've never been to. They give me directions and a map on how to get there. Nobody forces me to follow their directions, but if I choose not to follow them I can't blame the guy that made the map if I get lost or if I am late. If I take a shortcut I do so at my own peril.


Maps do not specify if you are to arrive by walking, train, car, bike, bus, helicopter or motorbike.

Incidentally, prostrations as a "practice" are Tibetan innovation. This is not a bad thing, but it does need to be recognized as such.
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby tomamundsen » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:32 am

Malcolm wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.


No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.

That's true. But I don't quite see the point of practicing Vajrayana if you aren't following a guru that you trust enough to defer practice instructions.
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby muni » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:21 am

smcj wrote:
Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.

Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.

For instance since I'm an old geezer I asked permission to use a raised prostration board, which makes them much easier. I got permission, but my teacher probably wouldn't have given a younger person that same permission.



The master sees what is the best for the student. All who have health problems or damages at the body, inform about.
While difficulties can be part of the exercise and need no cusshion or board if the body is healthy enough.
I make the mistake to want to protect the young bodies, because of the experiences that young is not the same as strong.
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby heart » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:17 pm

tomamundsen wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
tomamundsen wrote:Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.


No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.

That's true. But I don't quite see the point of practicing Vajrayana if you aren't following a guru that you trust enough to defer practice instructions.


That is a good question. However old practitioners is often given more leeway, at least I am, when it comes to what practice to do and perhaps Malcolm is talking from that perspective.

/magnus
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby muni » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:50 pm

The Guru is only helping. It is ones own practice, own liberation. 84000 ways to cure. In that way we cannot judge others medicine.

The gratitude and deep respect for the sacred given medicine, is also expressed by prostration.
Awaken ones their sometimes very old bodies bow down till last breath fades.


All the best with ngondro. :namaste:
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:39 pm

Incidentally, prostrations as a "practice" are Tibetan innovation. This is not a bad thing, but it does need to be recognized as such.

Nylon strings on a classical guitar are an American invention. Nobody wants to go back to cat-gut strings. Sometimes innovation is improvement. But if you tried to put metal strings on a classical guitar you'd collapse the instrument. You've got to know what you're doing. Best to trust the experts.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:24 pm

smcj wrote:
Incidentally, prostrations as a "practice" are Tibetan innovation. This is not a bad thing, but it does need to be recognized as such.

Nylon strings on a classical guitar are an American invention. Nobody wants to go back to cat-gut strings. Sometimes innovation is improvement. But if you tried to put metal strings on a classical guitar you'd collapse the instrument. You've got to know what you're doing. Best to trust the experts.


My basic point of course, is that I have seen numerous people injure themselves severely with prostrations (knees, backs, necks, wrists). As a Doctor, my motivation is to prevent further injuries so people can practice well and long. The Nalanda style of prostrations (so called half prostrations) is better than that Vikramashila style (so called full prostrations). It is easier on the back, knees and neck.

Sun salutations is better than either in my opinion, because it works all the major joints and channels with little risk of injury done slowly and with care.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby alpha » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:54 pm

smcj wrote: Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?




You can make up your own mantra.
One of these made up mantras is OM TELEPHONE SVAHA.
Yeah...do that... :rolling:
AOM
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Postby byamspa » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:14 pm

alpha wrote:
smcj wrote: Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?




You can make up your own mantra.
One of these made up mantras is OM TELEPHONE SVAHA.
Yeah...do that... :rolling:


The current state of samsara seems to be toward 'OM MONEY PAY ME NOW' :(
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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