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Is mahayana Buddism? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Is mahayana Buddism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby whynotme » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:41 am

Please stop following me

whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby whynotme » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:49 am

Please stop following me

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:23 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby whynotme » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:08 pm

Dear Cittasanto

Of course most of Mahayanist are Buddhist, and I think in Therevadin monks, many still have wrong view, it is normal. Ah thank to Bikkhu Pesala, right view is perfect view, or perfect view is right view because when something is true, then it is perfect true. If a view is not perfect, it is not right view.

I don't know how do you know this Cittasanto:
There are texts outside of Theravada which have equal claim to authenticity
particularly when they have "ceased to do unskilled acts, learned to do skilful acts & purified their mind."

How do you know this? How do you know authenticity of text outside of Therevada? How do you know authenticity of text of Therevada? How do you know they are equal?

How do you know those Mahayanist have ceased to do unskilled acts, learned to do skillful acts, purified their mind? Do you directly know their mind?

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:28 pm

Hi Whynotme,
I did not claim any authenticity or equality, only that they have equal claim to authenticity. Also I pointed out there are ardent mendicants that can also "cease to act in unskilled ways, learn to do good & purify their minds" (Dhammapada 183) as those in Theravada.

Regarding the texts try to look for some comparative analysis's of the Agama Sutras; which are considered by some to be Hinayana teachings. These are from other schools of Buddhism which have just as much claim as Theravada to relaying the authentic teachings of the Buddha.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Vlcimba
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Vlcimba » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:50 am

Yes it is, instead of questioning other branches of buddhism, as i am a Mahayanist as well as partly a Theravadist too, but i dont see why not? Its still buddhism aint it. They follow similiar teaching, the aim is the same , to achieve nirvana.
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra

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Anagarika
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Anagarika » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:45 pm

"There are texts outside of Theravada which have equal claim to authenticity. for purposes of practicing Theravada the Pali Canon is the best option, but for purposes of truth the pali canon is not the only source. Those who find themselves in Mahayana groups and have studied these texts and practiced ardently are just as Buddhist as any Theravadin, particularly when they have "ceased to do unskilled acts, learned to do skilful acts & purified their mind."

:goodpost:

suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby suttametta » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:16 pm

From Mahayana to Vajrayana (and Dzogchen) what you have is an increasingly global synthesis of Buddhism and Vedism. Once the method of anapanasati is changed from a mindfulness method to focusing on the breath as an object, then one begins to enter into the genre of practices begun in Pre-Vedic ages of focusing on objects, like mantras, images, etc., which are in essence a manner of concentrating on vibration.

Then, it becomes natural to synthesize Vedic ideas that flow from such experiences, like Brahman in Sanatana Dharma. How the Dharmakaya is a species of Sanatana dharma is where in Mahayana and Vajrayana the seed syllable is said to emanate from the Dharmakaya, as in the case of the Prajnaparamita of a Single Sound, etc., where mantras and dharanis become used. This comes from an Upanishadic notion about the nature of AUM. The Dzogchen Tantras explicitly describe themselves in the same way the Vedas describe themselves, as emanating from the primordial origin of the universe, namely sound.

Here we have a line in the sand. In Vedism you are focusing on vibration. One is supposed to trace the vibration back to the origin and find Brahman. Whereas, in Buddhism you are mindful of breathing, etc., to recognize pure consciousness without surface or feature with is Nirvana, no vibration. On paper it is not possible to discern, but having practice all three of these systems for years I discovered that the place in ourselves where vibrations emanate is a courser level than the level of pure consciousness. Brahman is the level of dreamless sleep, unconsciouness. Become aware of that is not nirvana which is completely lit and never unconscious.

Also, the Sravaka method of anapanasati is very fast and leads in a matter of days to whichever result Vajrayana and Dzogchen says takes a whole life or more. They are dragged down by these vibration concentration schemes. Even Mahamudra and Dzogchen in their pure forms, meditating "on emptiness," are dealing with the level of mind and thoughts, where they arises and disappear. This is not the path to nirvana either. You are still dealing with the level of fluctuation. In a real sense, these methods incorporation of Vedism and the use of such types of methodology, invariably leads to the Deva realms and not beyond samsara. It is their views about not the extreme of nirvana and not the extreme of samsara that keeps them in samsara.

Subsequently, I realized the explanations in Mahayana denigrating the Sravaka introduces doubt about the Sravaka's method and prevents success in that method due to that doubt. Which means Mahayana is hindrance.

Nyana
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Nyana » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:07 pm


suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby suttametta » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:28 pm


Nyana
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Nyana » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:11 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Dan74 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:27 am

_/|\_

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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:01 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby suttametta » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:34 pm


suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

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suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby suttametta » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:31 pm


Nyana
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby Nyana » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:29 pm


suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Postby suttametta » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:01 pm


Nyana
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

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