Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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reflection
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Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:19 pm

Last edited by reflection on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 19 times in total.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:43 pm

Hi Reflection,
There are many understanding and experience based on what the texts say, and Buddhagosa mentiones the mental body which is a form of nimita I believe (I am no expert of the Visudhimagga so someone please correct or confirm please)

if you look elsewhere the Buddha uses the phrase "touches with their body" sometimes this is something which can be touched sometimes not, but it is meaning direct experience. however some meditators experiance a body others do not, there is a wide range of experiance regarding the same thing.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:08 am

Kaya could refer to the body as a six-sense body, whereupon 'mental' states are properly considered as bodily states. On this view, mano functions as that sixth sense, vinnana functions across them all, and citta stitches it together (ignorantly, as it happens).

So being detached from kama and detached from akusala dhammas is being detached from the hindrances across the six senses, not being detached from the senses themselves. Going completely beyond rupa-sanna only happens in the arupas - and these aren't necessary for liberation, while jhana is.

There are a number of Suttas in this connection, but so too are there Suttas which laud arupa attainments. The problem is that these look rather stitched on to me, and it seems quite likely that they are brahman tools. Jhana is not this kind of thing, which seems apparent to me, but of course views on this matter are legion.

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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Sylvester » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:22 am


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reflection
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:40 am


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:23 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:08 pm

Last edited by reflection on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:22 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby daverupa » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:15 am


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:13 am


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:06 am

Last edited by reflection on Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:21 am


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:39 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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reflection
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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:10 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:24 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:06 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby marc108 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:15 pm

have you listened to Ajahn Brahm or Ajahn Sujato give talks on Jhana? They both have talks and Sutta commentary which are very convincing re: Jhana as a purely mental absorption.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:24 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby reflection » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:26 pm


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Re: Purely mental absorption (jhana) in the suttas

Postby danieLion » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:38 pm



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