H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

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H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:09 am

Hello dear Gelugpas, :)

Recently did i see undermentioned video about H.H. the Dalai Lama 14 and H.H. The Gyalwa Karmapa 17 and H.E. Ling Rinpoche (i guess) where they are in discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HEpVxxGZZk

My question to you dear Gelugpas is who takes it over,

Both
or only H.H. the Karmapa 17
or only H.E. Ling Rinpoche.

I know for a long time that H.H. the Dalai Lama would have said that he would be the last Dalai Lama.
Is that according your informations correct what i am stating here?
I guess it would be true regarding the conversation on this video clip.........

Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung
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HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby conebeckham » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:06 pm

I don't think he said he'd be the last Dalai Lama...I think he said he would be the last one born in Tibet, though.....maybe?

Would be good to have sources, instead of suppositions, though...
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Will » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:49 pm

Nothing definite, but here are the search results of the Kundun's site:

http://dalailama.com/search/index/successor
One should refrain from biased judgments and doubting in fathoming the Buddha and the Dharma of the Buddhas. Even though a dharma may be extremely difficult to believe, one should nonetheless maintain faith in it. Nagarjuna
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby kalden yungdrung » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:08 am

Will wrote:Nothing definite, but here are the search results of the Kundun's site:

http://dalailama.com/search/index/successor



Hello Will, :)

Thanks for your reply.

Then i am glad to know when it is definite and like to know it also where one can hear this definite news.
For me was my contribution with that video clip with H.H. the Dalai Lama, H.H. The Gyalwa Karmapa and H.E. Ling Rinpoche very convincing regarding the successors in case the Dalai Lama would stop with his Tulku ship.

I guess that we in the nearby future ,after the "passing "of H.H. the Dalai Lama in the Kashag, for the first time , get elections. :applause:

Then i guess also that we get, many dough balls in a bowl, which is shaked untill a little dough ball rolls out.
This is many times done. Inside that dough ball is then written the name of the Successor.

So in that way would it be possible that one of the 5 Tibetan Traditions can get the position what the Dalai Lama actual has.

I am guessing this because Tibetans are living outside Tibet in exile and the Tibetans inside Tibet cannot vote.
So here also will end may be the Gelug rulership and we do not get a 6 th Tibetan Tradition and outside Tibet has finally every other Tibetan Tradition the right to take it over, for a certain time lets say 5 years.
Once in the 25 years could there be for one Tibetan tradition a rulership possible?
So who starts that would be may be the oldest Tibetan Tradition?

Must underline that this is said in my personal vision i have.

Best wishes for our individual practice
Kalden Yungdrung
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby kalden yungdrung » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:53 pm

conebeckham wrote:I don't think he said he'd be the last Dalai Lama...I think he said he would be the last one born in Tibet, though.....maybe?

Would be good to have sources, instead of suppositions, though...



Hello Conebeckham, :)

Thanks for your reply.

What i did hear years ago is that His Holiness the Dalai Lama 14 will the last.
Prove is in the Video his saying to the 2 guests namely H.H. the Gyalwa Karmapa and H.E. Ling Rinpoche.

Otherwise His Holiness would never have had this official filmed conversation......

May be elections? :o

Best wishes for our practice

Kalden Yungdrung
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby kerby » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:01 am

Long Life Prayer for His Holiness the Dalai Lama
In the land encircled by snow mountains
You are the source of all hapiness and good;
All powerful Chenrezig,Tenzin Gyatso,
Please remain until samsara ends.

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In the land encircled by snow mountains
You are the source of all happiness and good;
All powerful Chenrezig, Tenzin Gyatso,
Please remain until samsara ends.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby spiritnoname » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:53 am

Sorry I found this thread so late,..


HHDL announced at Ganden ( I think it was Ganden) some time ago, maybe 2007? Hard to remember exactly, that he would be the last Dalai Lama in the line.

Also there is at least one prediction that 14 would be as long as the line lasts, I read this some time ago so if I need to reference this it may take time,.. ask if you want it.

Gelukpa has it's high lamas and elected abbots and what not to take care of things.

Recently there has been a election for a chief of the Tibetans, so I think that elections is how the gov will operate.

The schools all have their lineage heads, and when they pass away there will be the next in the line.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby BFS » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:30 pm

Image

OM SVASTI
O our gurus, and your line of lamas, for whom we have the deepest gratitude,
You who are the repository of the three: secret powers of body, speech, and mind of innumerable buddhas,
Who manifest in a miraculous way to each devotee according to his capacity,
To you, who are the wish-fulfilling gems, the source of all virtues and good qualities,
We offer our prayers with intense devotion
That our protector of the great Land of Snows,
Tenzin Gyatso, upholder of the Dharma, the great ocean,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

The dharmadhatu, the inexpressible reality that pervades all things like the heavens,
Immaculate, full of great bliss and transcendental wisdom,
Manifests like a cloud the numberless abodes of the higher divinities,
The mandalas of the heavenly beings.
To all the higher forms of the divine ones, the yidams,
We offer our prayers with intense devotion
That Tenzin Gyatso, protector of the great Land of Snows,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

O you numberless buddhas of the past, present, and future
Who are the masters of the ten powers and teachers of the gods,
Whose attributes of perfection, free from defilements and born of realization
Are the source of the buddha-activity
That appears for all time in the ocean of the suffering of the world
For the sake of all sentient beings —
To you we offer our prayers with intense devotion
That Tenzin Gyatso, protector of the great Land of Snows,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

O sacred Dharmas of the three yanas,
Which liberate us from the sufferings of the three worlds,
Supremely calm, the jewel treasure of the fully enlightened ones,
Without impurities, unchanging, eternally good, the peak of virtues,
To you we offer our prayers with intense devotion
That Tenzin Gyatso, protector of the great Land of Snows,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

O all you arya Sangha, awakened and unsullied,
Of highest valour in conquering the suffering of the wheel of life
With the transcendental wisdom that directly intuits the deeper truth,
Never departing from the indestructible vajra abode of nirvana -
To you we offer our prayers with intense devotion
That Tenzin Gyatso, protector of the great Land of Snows,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

O you dakas and dakinis, heavenly beings of the three worlds,
Who appear in the highest paradises, the sacred places, the cremation grounds,
Who have innumerable experiences of the bliss of the void,
Supporting the yogis in their meditation on the excellent path,
To you all we offer our prayers with intense devotion
That Tenzin Gyatso, protector of the great Land of Snows,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

To the ocean of guardians of the teaching, who possess the eye of transcendental wisdom,
Carrying on their matted locks the knot
Symbolic of the vows they made to Vajradhara Buddha,
The powerful ones who protect the teaching and the upholders of the Dharma -
We offer you our prayers with intense devotion
That Tenzin Gyatso, protector of the great Land of Snows,
May live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

To all you guileless ones, in whom we take the excellent refuge,
We pray with intense devotion, humbly, from our very heart,
That by the strength of these verses
Ngawang Losang Tenzin Gyatso,
He who has power over speech, the kindly one,
Upholder of the Dharma, the great ocean,
He who possesses the three secret powers,
May be indestructible, eternal, and without end.
That, seated on the supreme unconquerable throne of the vajra,
He may live for a hundred eons.
Pour on him your blessings
That his aspirations may be fulfilled.

You who bear the burdens of innumerable buddhas,
With courage carrying on your shoulders the vast activities of the fully enlightened ones,
Working for the well of all beings, like the wish-fulfilling gem, the jewel of jewels,
May your aspiration be perfectly fulfilled.

By virtue of this may the golden era be opened
Like a gate to the great spaces, liberating all sentient beings,
Coming as the happiness of spring which comforts our sorrows
And helps the teaching of the Buddha to spread in all directions and in all ages,
Making it prosper to the summit of samsara and nirvana.

O you with the lotus in your hand, may the nectar stream of your blessing
Strengthen our mind and bring it to maturity.
May we be able to please you by practicing the Dharma;
Through accomplishing at all times the good deeds of the bodhisattvas,
May we reach nirvana.

By the blessings of the wondrous buddhas and bodhisattvas,
By the unassailable truth of the spiritual laws of cause and effect,
By the unstained power of the pure mind,
May the aim of my prayers soon be accomplished
:heart:
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Blue Garuda » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:41 pm

Before deciding on a successor maybe these questions should be asked and answered:

Why is there a need for a Tibetan Government in Exile, when it is based in India and under Indian government rule anyway?

As we have heads of the various schools, why is there a need for a Dalai Lama for spiritual functions?

What role would a future Dalai Lama have - what is it that a successor would actually inherit and what would they do?

Where should a successor be based? India? Tibet?

How and where and when should the selection be made?

Should candidates be monks or should it be open to 'white sangha' (ngakpa) lamas and female practitioners?

Those with a journalistic mind would ask these questions.

P.S. I don't have the answers! LOL :)
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Tilopa » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:28 am

Why is there a need for a Tibetan Government in Exile, when it is based in India and under Indian government rule anyway?

To help address the political, social, educational, religious and cultural needs of a refugee population in excess of 100,000 and to provide the Tibetans who remain under Chinese occupation some hope that one day their dark and brutal oppression will come to an end.

As we have heads of the various schools, why is there a need for a Dalai Lama for spiritual functions?

A figurehead such as HHDL or HH Karmapa (who looks set to succeed him in that role) can be a powerful symbol for a culture in danger of extinction. Every group needs a leader to provide focus and direction and would Tibetan buddhism be so widely respected and practiced around the world if the Dalai Lama was purely a political functionary?

What role would a future Dalai Lama have - what is it that a successor would actually inherit and what would they do?

Good question and I suppose it's why HH says there will be another DL only if he is needed. Dependent arising and all that. My guess is that if HH feels he can contribute to the preservation of the Tibetan culture he will incarnate in the role again.

Where should a successor be based? India? Tibet?

Many years ago HH said he would reincarnate in the refugee community in India and not in China. This was officially announced in Dharamsala and the Tibetan newspapers not long after the Chinese kidnapped and 'disappeared' the Panchen Lama. If Tibet gets the autonomy they hope for presumably he would move back to Lhasa.

How and where and when should the selection be made?

Best left up to the religious and political authorities to work this one out. They've had a lot of practice.

Should candidates be monks or should it be open to 'white sangha' (ngakpa) lamas and female practitioners?

Very interesting question. Candidates are usually young children who have not yet been inducted into any monastic or religious system so in theory they could be anyone from any tradition. HH already said that in the future he could be reborn as a female if it was more beneficial so why not a Nagpa although given the relationship with the Gelug tradition it's more likely he or she would be ordained in that tradition.

I think it's important to distinguish between the Dalai Lama as an emanation of Chenrezig who will always manifest in the world of sentient beings in some form or other and the Dalai Lama as an institution which is something that may have been relevant to the religious and cultural identity of Tibet in the past but which may not be important in the future.
Last edited by Tilopa on Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Heruka » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:42 am

Yeshe wrote:P.S. I don't have the answers! LOL :)



no, but you have opinions.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:45 pm

Tilopa wrote:Why is there a need for a Tibetan Government in Exile, when it is based in India and under Indian government rule anyway?

To help address the political, social, educational, religious and cultural needs of a refugee population in excess of 100,000 and to provide the Tibetans who remain under Chinese occupation some hope that one day their dark and brutal oppression will come to an end.

As we have heads of the various schools, why is there a need for a Dalai Lama for spiritual functions?

A figurehead such as HHDL or HH Karmapa (who looks set to succeed him in that role) can be a powerful symbol for a culture in danger of extinction. Every group needs a leader to provide focus and direction and would Tibetan buddhism be so widely respected and practiced around the world if the Dalai Lama was purely a political functionary?

What role would a future Dalai Lama have - what is it that a successor would actually inherit and what would they do?

Good question and I suppose it's why HH says there will be another DL only if he is needed. Dependent arising and all that. My guess is that if HH feels he can contribute to the preservation of the Tibetan culture he will incarnate in the role again.

Where should a successor be based? India? Tibet?

Many years ago HH said he would reincarnate in the refugee community in India and not in China. This was officially announced in Dharamsala and the Tibetan newspapers not long after the Chinese kidnapped and 'disappeared' the Panchen Lama. If Tibet gets the autonomy they hope for presumably he would move back to Lhasa.

How and where and when should the selection be made?

Best left up to the religious and political authorities to work this one out. They've had a lot of practice.

Should candidates be monks or should it be open to 'white sangha' (ngakpa) lamas and female practitioners?

Very interesting question. Candidates are usually young children who have not yet been inducted into any monastic or religious system so in theory they could be anyone from any tradition. HH already said that in the future he could be reborn as a female if it was more beneficial so why not a Nagpa although given the relationship with the Gelug tradition it's more likely he or she would be ordained in that tradition.

I think it's important to distinguish between the Dalai Lama as an emanation of Chenrezig who will always manifest in the world of sentient beings in some form or other and the Dalai Lama as an institution which is something that may have been relevant to the religious and cultural identity of Tibet in the past but which may not be important in the future.



Thank you for those answers, which are really helpful. :)

I hope that, as with the current Dalai Lama, the successor is able to be an effective global figure. The Dharma transcends cultural and geographical boundaries. ;)
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Luke » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:59 pm

I would just like to remind everyone that His Holiness the Dalai is not dead yet!

It is true that he is getting older, but he is only 75. It is totally possible that he could live until he's 100. (I'd love to see the shock on the Chinese party leaders' faces if His Holiness lives that long!)

Long live the Dalai Lama!
ImageImageImage

May His Holiness' body remain healthy, full of vitality, and completely free of all illness.
TEYATA OM BEKANDZE BEKANDZE MAHABEKANDZE RADZA SAMUGATE SOHA
Image


Personally, I don't care who the Dalai Lama's successor is as long as that person is of great benefit to Tibet and to all sentient beings. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje could be very helpful in this role, as could some other great lamas.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:19 pm

I know we are talking about successors but I would like to interject with a prayer /\ Thank you.

Image

GANG RI RA WE KOR WAI ZHING KHAM DIR
In this pure realm, surrounded by snow moutains,

PEN DANG DE WA MA LU JUNG WAI NE
Is the source of complete happiness and benefit,.

CHEN RE ZIG WA TEN DZIN GYAM TSO YI
Avalokiteshvara, Tendzin Gyamtso.

ZHAB PE SI TAI BAR DU TEN GYUR CHIK
May you stand firm until the end of existence.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:46 pm

heart wrote:
Yeshe wrote:
heart wrote:
I don't feel very happy about him being a moderator based on what I know about his opinions. I have no problem with him posting here.

Dear Yeshe I am not trolling you, I think you know that. I would be very happy to hear that you changed your heart about this.

/magnus



You are not trolling me. :)

What opinions have I expressed here on DW which give you concern?

My beliefs do not in any way conflict with applying ToS. If they did so, I would not have offered to act as a Mod. ;)


Oh, I thought that your first post in this thread was a bit on the edge. Maybe I am oversensitive.

/magnus



No problem.

I was seeking to contextualise the question - I used to work in PR etc and sometimes want the WHO, WHAT, WHERE, HOW, WHY and WHEN to be clarified. ;)

But now time for me to be silent. ;)
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby muni » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:41 pm

http://www.worldcrunch.com/dalai-lama-s ... s-out/3221

Thank you, your Holiness for all. :buddha1: Long life! :namaste:
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby Caz » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:41 am

HE ling Rinpoche has throughout his incarnations always been brilliant I would be interested to see what the future holds for him as to if he would become involved in the political running of things or choose rather to leave it alone.
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby username » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:57 am

As rightly decided, it is the business of those Tibetans who are fortunate enough to vote in exile.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby conebeckham » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:11 pm

Agreed. I hope the Tibetan Community in exile can successfully transition to a true democratic process. HH Gyalwa Karmapa has made it clear that he is not interested in a politcal role, and I think HHDl's recent position statements clearly indicate that, even if there is a 15th DL, he will likely not be primarily a political figure.
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Re: H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and his eventual successors

Postby kalden yungdrung » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:26 pm

conebeckham wrote:Agreed. I hope the Tibetan Community in exile can successfully transition to a true democratic process. HH Gyalwa Karmapa has made it clear that he is not interested in a politcal role, and I think HHDl's recent position statements clearly indicate that, even if there is a 15th DL, he will likely not be primarily a political figure.



Tashi delek,

Thanks for your usefull informations.

Very wise decission of H.H. the 17th Gyalwa Karmapa to act as a wise monk instead of mix that all up with illusionary politics.
The first Tibetan Rinpoche who speaks out of my heart.
I.m.o a monk belongs to the monastery and not in the parliament.
Parliament is something for non monks i guess, but we know so very well the Tibetan politics from before 1959.........

For me was it always a strange case to see a monk busy with worldly affairs, this because also the Indian Buddha Shakyamuni forsake the role of prince and fled in secret out of the palace. Is this not the example for the Tibetan Dorje Thekpa ?


Best wishes
KY
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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