It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Anything goes (almost).

It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

It's a sign! - just when I needed it most, I got a sign inexplicably from the universe or something!
11
37%
Magical thinking is stupid! - be logical & you won't find yourself in such desperate situations, clinging to such desperate nonsense.
19
63%
 
Total votes : 30

Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby smcj » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:00 pm

I am an occasional magical thinker, and an occasional hard-boiled rationalist....but always deep in the mire of samsara. That is madness...the madness we all share.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby M.G. » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:43 pm

Is there any way to practice Tibetan Buddhism and not be involved in what atheists would consider magical thinking? I'd think once one accepts rebirth, let alone such minutiae as oath-bound dharmapalas, divinations, etc, its all one big hoodoo throwdown from a strict rationalist's perspective.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby futerko » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:01 am

M.G. wrote:Is there any way to practice Tibetan Buddhism and not be involved in what atheists would consider magical thinking? I'd think once one accepts rebirth, let alone such minutiae as oath-bound dharmapalas, divinations, etc, its all one big hoodoo throwdown from a strict rationalist's perspective.


I think this only applies in regard to externality, and not if one applies the "hoodoo" simply to the vagaries of one's own imagination.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby M.G. » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:16 am

futerko wrote:
M.G. wrote:Is there any way to practice Tibetan Buddhism and not be involved in what atheists would consider magical thinking? I'd think once one accepts rebirth, let alone such minutiae as oath-bound dharmapalas, divinations, etc, its all one big hoodoo throwdown from a strict rationalist's perspective.


I think this only applies in regard to externality, and not if one applies the "hoodoo" simply to the vagaries of one's own imagination.


Hmmmmm..... I suppose that's true. Would that be an exclusively American interpretation of Tibetan Buddhism? My understanding is that the 'hoodoo' was largely taken literally in Asia.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby tatpurusa » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:41 am

M.G. wrote:Is there any way to practice Tibetan Buddhism and not be involved in what atheists would consider magical thinking? I'd think once one accepts rebirth, let alone such minutiae as oath-bound dharmapalas, divinations, etc, its all one big hoodoo throwdown from a strict rationalist's perspective.


Only the scientific worldview based on atheism and philosophical materialism corresponds with the strict rationalist's view.
Though there might be some overlapping fields, no tradition of Buddhism, be it Zen, Dzogchen, Theravada or whatever else,
truely corresponds to that particular view.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby futerko » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:52 am

M.G. wrote:
futerko wrote:
M.G. wrote:Is there any way to practice Tibetan Buddhism and not be involved in what atheists would consider magical thinking? I'd think once one accepts rebirth, let alone such minutiae as oath-bound dharmapalas, divinations, etc, its all one big hoodoo throwdown from a strict rationalist's perspective.


I think this only applies in regard to externality, and not if one applies the "hoodoo" simply to the vagaries of one's own imagination.


Hmmmmm..... I suppose that's true. Would that be an exclusively American interpretation of Tibetan Buddhism? My understanding is that the 'hoodoo' was largely taken literally in Asia.
I dunno, I'm not in either Asia or America, so I guess I'm somewhere in between, middle way and all that... :smile:
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby seeker242 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:54 am

It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid


Where is the "neither of the above" option?!
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby reddust » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:56 am

I am a very magical thinker, that's where are my painting ideas come from. But I am also very practical and logical because I need to eat and have a warm place to sleep. I need both or my world would be very extreme, either dull and gray or six flags amusement park.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby AnShen » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:41 am

I think the poll presents us with a false dichotomy. There is a way to acknowledge, and open oneself to, the experience of synchronicity without lapsing into "magical thinking".
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Martin007 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:49 pm

I announced recently on a forum that I hadn't seen a porpoise for ages - then 2 days later I actually saw a porpoise! So logically this means that either magical thinking works, or that porpoises read Buddhist forums and are very obliging.... :lol:
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Martin007 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:50 pm

AnShen wrote:I think the poll presents us with a false dichotomy.


Rationality often does.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby padma norbu » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:05 pm

porpoise wrote:
AnShen wrote:I think the poll presents us with a false dichotomy.


Rationality often does.


Some things are signs, some things are not?
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby dharmagoat » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:48 pm

porpoise wrote:I announced recently on a forum that I hadn't seen a porpoise for ages - then 2 days later I actually saw a porpoise! So logically this means that either magical thinking works, or that porpoises read Buddhist forums and are very obliging.... :lol:

No silly, it is the Universe that reads the Buddhist forums, the porpoises just do the obliging.

Have you never seen Universe [Bot] at the bottom of the page?
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby tatpurusa » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:56 pm

... be careful, porpoises are directly born from avidyā :sage: :ugeek:
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby padma norbu » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:54 pm

porpoise wrote:I announced recently on a forum that I hadn't seen a porpoise for ages - then 2 days later I actually saw a porpoise! So logically this means that either magical thinking works, or that porpoises read Buddhist forums and are very obliging.... :lol:


The other day, I randomly thought of the word "chimera" while waiting on line at the post office with my wife and remembered how I used to pronounce it all wrong as a kid. I asked her how she pronounces the word and spelled it out. She pronounced it wrong like I used to as a teenager. I told her the correct pronunciation and said, "doesn't that sound funny?" We left the post office and went to the library where I got a few books, one of which was "Going Clear" about Scientology (an exposé, not a religious book). On the first page of the Introduction was the description of L. Ron Hubbard which included the word "chimerical"... Coincidence?!?!
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby reddust » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:55 am

Does anyone every take a sign with them while passing one on the road? :tongue: Same goes with signs I noticed through the day. Sometimes it seems as if the world is constantly talking to me, this was really noticeable when I first started meditating. Signs like synchronicity, déjà vu, you hear a song that you just thought about, know who is calling and when they will call used to happen all the time. Signs like that are not as strong, probably have to do with integration, sometimes I make notes if I want to remember an idea that comes up with what ever sign I have noticed. There are also signs like like a crow flying by, or a certain glint of snow that caste rainbows of light, or a bull frog that stops and lets me pick him up, something someone says, these signs trigger ideas for paintings to come and visit or how to resolve a problem or write an equation…the world really is a magical place full of signs. They are nice, make life really interesting too, and sometimes signs come in handy and prevent you from being run over like stop signs on the road. My dreams have the best signs though, amazing stories as well, really the world is a very magical place. What is simply amazing is we see the world from the inside of our head where there is no light to see! I think everything is a sign in this world :rolling:
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Martin007 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:55 am

padma norbu wrote:
porpoise wrote:
AnShen wrote:I think the poll presents us with a false dichotomy.


Rationality often does.


Some things are signs, some things are not?


I was thinking of logical fallacies.
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Martin007 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:57 am

tatpurusa wrote:... be careful, porpoises are directly born from avidyā :sage: :ugeek:


No, they're born from mummy and daddy porpoises.. :tongue:
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby Martin007 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 am

padma norbu wrote: Coincidence?!?!


Yes, coincidences can seem very strange at times - but maybe they're just coincidences?
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Re: It's a sign / Magical thinking is stupid

Postby dharmagoat » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:08 pm

porpoise wrote:Yes, coincidences can seem very strange at times - but maybe they're just coincidences?

I agree.

Coincidences by their nature are very rare, but we are very attuned to noticing them.

As an exercise, think of how much of what we perceive that are not coincidences. Almost all of it.
Last edited by dharmagoat on Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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