What is that you want?

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Re: What is that you want?

Postby oushi » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:50 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
oushi wrote: Just be yourself.

Forget yourself.
just be.
.
.
.

There is no "just being" without accepting oneself. If you accept yourself, then you just are. Being self arises only in relation to becoming other. If there is no desire to become other, there is just being.
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Alfredo » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:45 am

Then how come Buddhism has a god of wealth?
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby oushi » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:16 pm

Alfredo wrote:Then how come Buddhism has a god of wealth?

Please, explain what you mean by that.
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby LastLegend » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:09 pm

How do you accept anger when it comes?
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NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby oushi » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:41 pm

LastLegend wrote:How do you accept anger when it comes?

By not bothering about it. Notice that you had to accept anger as something wrong to face the problem. On what basis?
Not mentioning that a lion-share of anger is caused by desire to become or/and expectations applied upon you by others. Oh, how furious people are when they are expected to behave differently than they are behaving. Everyone around you wants you to behave differently. It is impossible to satisfy them all, while satisfying yourself. Sometimes anger is the most effective answer.
Accepting yourself removes most of the anger, and the rest cases to be a problem. People develop hatred when they are not accepted. Stalin wanted to become a monk, and was refused. Hitlers dream was to become a painter and he was rejected.
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby LastLegend » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:17 pm

You said "accept yourself." Can you explain more on that?
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby oushi » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:31 pm

LastLegend wrote:You said "accept yourself." Can you explain more on that?

There are few ways of approaching this question. The simplest would be to remove the notion of wrong. Like Bodhidharma said:" Act. Don’t question. When you question, you’re wrong. Wrong is the result of questioning."
So, do not question your own actions. Without questioning, there will be no way of saying to oneself how one should, or shouldn't behave. This way becoming has no ground for arising, as there is no "right" in the future opposing "wrong" in the present. Since becoming other does not arise, self, its counterpart does not arise.
Lonchenpa said: "Do not go against what you do" which is basically the same thing. By far the best form of this teaching is found in Christianity, and precisely in Christ passion, but this is material for a separate topic.
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Ayu » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:16 pm

oushi wrote:
oushi wrote:What is the goal you want to achieve through your spiritual practice?
Honestly and in simple words that you understand. For example, never ending bliss, or joy. Sharp mind, clear thinking etc.
So, what is that you really desire?

I wanted to end suffering... How pathetic.
I wanted to have excellent wisdom... How arrogant.
I wanted permanence... How numb.
I wanted peace... How ignorant.
I wanted nothing... How boring.

Who made me want it all? Who made me believe it all?
One cannot make religion from "just be yourself", it will not sell well. The one thing you will never hear.. especial from yourself.
Just be yourself.


Image First you ask a question and then you judge about all of the answers? Why?
Ah, because you think: 'If I say there is no problem, than all problems will disolve' ? :smile:
Your above quoted judgements are no objective truths, they are only a mirror of your mind. :shrug:

In long term thinking, I really want ALL the suffering in this world to end.
Anybody can call this sentimental or moony, fanciful or stupid. But that's not my fault. :coffee:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby futerko » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:28 pm

Ayu wrote:Anybody can call this sentimental or moony, fanciful or stupid.


You seem to be overlooking the various definitions of the word "pathetic", which can be; related to, pertaining to, or capable of, arousing sympathetic sadness and compassion, and/or distressingly inadequate, both of which would seem entirely appropriate to the idea of wanting to end all suffering.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby oushi » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:34 pm

Judging all answers, came before as: "Wonderful! All answers are great." ;)
Ayu wrote:Ah, because you think: 'If I say there is no problem, than all problems will disolve' ?

I never said that, but if you come to such conclusion, there must be something in it.
Ayu wrote:Your above quoted judgements are no objective truths, they are only a mirror of your mind.

Maybe that is why they start with "I", and they refer to me... this way, they are nothing but a mirror of my mind. Do you have problem with it? Should I be silent about what I think? This looks like your expectation through with you are subtly trying to impose something on me. Somehow, this is precisely what I've described above.
Ayu wrote:In long term thinking, I really want ALL the suffering in this world to end.

I do not doubt that, nor am I trying to negate it. Looks like a very noble goal. Nevertheless, you seem to miss my point.
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Ayu » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:54 pm

Yes, oushi, I'm sure, I missed the point here. Sorry.
I enjoy very much this english language - but sometimes (or often?) my comprehension seems to be too poor. :shrug:

futerko wrote:
Ayu wrote:Anybody can call this sentimental or moony, fanciful or stupid.

You seem to be overlooking the various definitions of the word "pathetic", which can be; related to, pertaining to, or capable of, arousing sympathetic sadness and compassion, and/or distressingly inadequate, both of which would seem entirely appropriate to the idea of wanting to end all suffering.

I feel, you are giving a broad hint here, but I cannot understand it.
Please do me the favour and explain, what you wanted to say. :smile:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby oushi » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:03 pm

Ayu wrote:Yes, oushi, I'm sure, I missed the point here. Sorry.

No hard feelings, I am always eager to explain all the details, especially when I take my poor language skills into consideration. I often formulate my ideas in my native language and then translate them into english which may cause some heavy misconceptions. Nevertheless, feel free to ask for clarification anytime you feel doubtful about the meaning.
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby futerko » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:16 pm

Ayu wrote:
futerko wrote:
Ayu wrote:Anybody can call this sentimental or moony, fanciful or stupid.

You seem to be overlooking the various definitions of the word "pathetic", which can be; related to, pertaining to, or capable of, arousing sympathetic sadness and compassion, and/or distressingly inadequate, both of which would seem entirely appropriate to the idea of wanting to end all suffering.

I feel, you are giving a broad hint here, but I cannot understand it.
Please do me the favour and explain, what you wanted to say. :smile:


I was keeping it general to allow other interpretations, but now I look at it... it's like, maybe we see the word "pathetic" used as an insult between egos simply due to the way the world is, or the way our minds are (probably a bit of both)?

When I looked at the definition of the word, and considered it beyond the narrow, ego based use, it actually fitted much better than I expected. :smile:
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Lindama » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:16 pm

oushi wrote:Judging all answers, came before as: "Wonderful! All answers are great." ;)
Ayu wrote:Ah, because you think: 'If I say there is no problem, than all problems will disolve' ?

I never said that, but if you come to such conclusion, there must be something in it.
Ayu wrote:Your above quoted judgements are no objective truths, they are only a mirror of your mind.

Maybe that is why they start with "I", and they refer to me... this way, they are nothing but a mirror of my mind. Do you have problem with it? Should I be silent about what I think? This looks like your expectation through with you are subtly trying to impose something on me. Somehow, this is precisely what I've described above.
Ayu wrote:In long term thinking, I really want ALL the suffering in this world to end.

I do not doubt that, nor am I trying to negate it. Looks like a very noble goal. Nevertheless, you seem to miss my point.


This is a wonderful thread. There are many mirrors present for being and becoming.

It reminds me of the zen koan (as I remember): 16 Bodhisattvas got into the bath together and discovered the cause of water.

Longchempa is presenting a fierce way of being for me: not questioning with complete clarity... that is a brave hearted fire burning and a generosity of allowing .... a beautiful tension to hold, for now.... and yet, and yet
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Lindama » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:02 pm

For today, I want my Pumpkin Pie to reach the great completion.

how utterly.... all the above :smile:
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Ayu » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:20 pm

futerko wrote:I was keeping it general to allow other interpretations, but now I look at it... it's like, maybe we see the word "pathetic" used as an insult between egos simply due to the way the world is, or the way our minds are (probably a bit of both)?

When I looked at the definition of the word, and considered it beyond the narrow, ego based use, it actually fitted much better than I expected. :smile:


Aha? In my language and in my ears the word "pathetic" has something like "untrue", like if somebody who is pathetic is lying to himself. This would be a hard judgement and nobody can tell by reading words, if they are written out of the core of the heart or not.
In Germany, they seldom use this word "pathetic". They prefer terms like "gullible", if they want to say "I don't believe you". :smile:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Lindama » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Ayu wrote:
futerko wrote:I was keeping it general to allow other interpretations, but now I look at it... it's like, maybe we see the word "pathetic" used as an insult between egos simply due to the way the world is, or the way our minds are (probably a bit of both)?

When I looked at the definition of the word, and considered it beyond the narrow, ego based use, it actually fitted much better than I expected. :smile:


Aha? In my language and in my ears the word "pathetic" has something like "untrue", like if somebody who is pathetic is lying to himself. This would be a hard judgement and nobody can tell by reading words, if they are written out of the core of the heart or not.
In Germany, they seldom use this word "pathetic". They prefer terms like "gullible", if they want to say "I don't believe you". :smile:


i almost fell for it too.... that's why it's such a great reflection. It is completely meaningless at the core
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Ayu » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:29 pm

oushi wrote:I wanted to end suffering... How pathetic.
I wanted to have excellent wisdom... How arrogant.
I wanted permanence... How numb.
I wanted peace... How ignorant.
I wanted nothing... How boring.

Who made me want it all? Who made me believe it all?
One cannot make religion from "just be yourself", it will not sell well. The one thing you will never hear.. especial from yourself.
Just be yourself.


oushi wrote:
Ayu wrote:Your above quoted judgements are no objective truths, they are only a mirror of your mind.

Maybe that is why they start with "I", and they refer to me... this way, they are nothing but a mirror of my mind. ...


Image Now I understand! You didn't quote anybody but were talking about yourself. Hahaha, sorry. I didn't get that.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby Ayu » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:32 pm

Lindama wrote:i almost fell for it too.... that's why it's such a great reflection. It is completely meaningless at the core

:smile:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: What is that you want?

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:38 am

Alfredo wrote:Then how come Buddhism has a god of wealth?

That god of wealth was already a buddhist anyway, so they gave him a job.
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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