Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:00 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am
Posts: 993
KonchokZoepa wrote:
because it is not focusing on an object in the higher states of practice. it is resting in emptiness or mind's nature. not on a object.


If you want to rest in emptiness then Theravada is preferable. If you want to rest in the nature of mind then Mahamudra/Dzogchen is preferable.

_________________
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Posts: 2327
Location: the Netherlands and India
http://rootinstitute.com/newsletter2013.pdf

On page 7 of the Root Institute newsletter, Ven. Antonio Satta, who ordained many years ago in the Gelug traditions, talks about the benefits of time spent in a Theravada country and the relevance of Vipassana for Vajrayana practitioners.

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


Last edited by JKhedrup on Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 1358
i believe its page seven but thanks :namaste:

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Posts: 2327
Location: the Netherlands and India
My bad, page number corrected.

Ven. Antonio is a very popular teacher throughout the FPMT centres, it seems many of the students really appreciate the benefits of the Vipassana practice. It is also interesting how he manages to use a combination of Theravada and Mahayana methods successfully during the retreats.

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:21 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10290
Location: Greece
futerko wrote:
If you want to rest in emptiness then Theravada is preferable. If you want to rest in the nature of mind then Mahamudra/Dzogchen is preferable.
The difference, in your experience, being?

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:39 pm
Posts: 1270
Location: Gone Bush
Sherab Dorje wrote:
futerko wrote:
If you want to rest in emptiness then Theravada is preferable. If you want to rest in the nature of mind then Mahamudra/Dzogchen is preferable.
The difference, in your experience, being?

This helps convey the fact that ultimately there really is no difference between these two branches, just in the way such things are described.

_________________
May all beings be happy


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am
Posts: 993
Sherab Dorje wrote:
futerko wrote:
If you want to rest in emptiness then Theravada is preferable. If you want to rest in the nature of mind then Mahamudra/Dzogchen is preferable.
The difference, in your experience, being?


Whether one takes long retreats into solitude to attain Samadhi first, prior to Vippashyana, or not.

_________________
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 1358
YAYY, I got accepted in to Pa Auk Monastery for retreat in Mawlamyine, the head monastery. Anyhow i have now made other plans so i cant go there on january but maybe next summer :thinking: :woohoo: :meditate:

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 171
dharmagoat wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
futerko wrote:
If you want to rest in emptiness then Theravada is preferable. If you want to rest in the nature of mind then Mahamudra/Dzogchen is preferable.
The difference, in your experience, being?

This helps convey the fact that ultimately there really is no difference between these two branches, just in the way such things are described.


This is by no means the opinion of living masters of Mahamudra and Dzogchen.
They regard the experience of nature of mind higher than just the experience of emptiness.
Theravadin monks would not agree with that though ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
The Buddha wouldn't agree with the Theravadin monks. They embrace the provisional and reject the essential.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Posts: 2327
Location: the Netherlands and India
Konchok Zoepa,

I really look forward to hearing about your experiences at Pa Auk. It is a place I pray to have the chance to visit one day, as I have been greatly impressed but its practitioners.

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 1358
thats nice to hear about the practitioners. i will make sure you hear about my experience, be that the case i go there. currently its a 50% chance i will drive myself to go there next summer. i decided to start school so im doing that this winter and and spring and then maybe spend the summer there and then back to school, and then maybe back there :smile: we'll see. ill keep us update :smile:

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
dude wrote:
The Buddha wouldn't agree with the Theravadin monks. They embrace the provisional and reject the essential.


Which Buddha? The Mahāyāna one?

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 1358
dude wrote:
The Buddha wouldn't agree with the Theravadin monks. They embrace the provisional and reject the essential.


brrrr. the buddha probably wouldnt agree with the vajrayana monks either, at least not anymore than the theravadan. theravadin monks uphold the original monastic style, just like it was in the buddhas day. and they study the pali canon which consist of the original works of the Buddha. now if you want to say that the pali canon is provisional and not essential, go ahead, but thats only your opinion, and your making a general judgement that even though the theravadans study the pali canon they reject the essentials of it. which is rude and ignorant.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
Yes the Buddha of the Mahayana.
Of course that's only my opinion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am
Posts: 3043
Buddha of the Mahayana and............wait, can truth be in a right constructed dharma with which Buddha/Nature then agrees or disagrees?

Or the Buddha is not conditioned by various ideas about but we are?

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG_lNuNUVd4


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
muni wrote:
Buddha of the Mahayana and............wait, can truth be in a right constructed dharma with which Buddha/Nature then agrees or disagrees?

Or the Buddha is not conditioned by various ideas about but we are?


Right you are indeed.
The Buddha's true intention is to lead all people to enlightenment, but his followers were incapable of believing that they could become Buddhas, so he taught the lesser vehicles of voice hearer, arahant and bodhisattva as a means to develop their capacities.

"People of small wisdom delight in a small doctrine,

unable to believe that they themselves could become buddhas.

Therefore we employ expedient means,

making distinctions and preaching various goals.

But though we preach the three vehicles,

we do it merely in order to teach the bodhisattvas.”
- Lotus Sutra


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
muni wrote:
Buddha of the Mahayana and............wait, can truth be in a right constructed dharma with which Buddha/Nature then agrees or disagrees?

Or the Buddha is not conditioned by various ideas about but we are?


Right you are indeed.
The Buddha's true intention is to lead all people to enlightenment, but his followers were incapable of believing that they could become Buddhas, so he taught the lesser vehicles of voice hearer, arahant and bodhisattva as a means to develop their capacities.

"People of small wisdom delight in a small doctrine,

unable to believe that they themselves could become buddhas.

Therefore we employ expedient means,

making distinctions and preaching various goals.

But though we preach the three vehicles,

we do it merely in order to teach the bodhisattvas.”
- Lotus Sutra


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 am
Posts: 933
dude, "People of small wisdom delight in a small doctrine"
You remind me of the christians, each bickering and thinking only they have understood the teachings of Jesus. The Catholics pour scorn on the Baptists and so on. Non really understanding the core teaching of the Sermon on the Mount.
In 'Ceylon' the scholar monks came to the fore. Walpola Rahula points out this was directly contrary to the original teachings of the Buddha, where the realization of nirvana was fundamental, not the mere study of the dharma. Scholarship became more important than spiritual practice and the ascetics wandered off into the forest.
The scholars reigned supreme; this was a radical departure of the way of life prescribed for the monks by the Buddha.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:46 am
Posts: 1
What an interesting discussion! I hope you are still around to comment more. I was very close to staying at the Pa Auk last fall when I wanted to ordain after a relationship break up =). My story is that I started with Theravada and felt like it was a natural home for me when I wanted to ordain. The Pa Auk is very disciplined from what I remember, more disciplined that the other Burmese centers my dharma teacher was recommending.

I am trying the other direction actually (from Theravada to Vajrayana). In my experience, Theravada limited me because I felt I was repressing suffering instead of liberating it. Tantra and mahamudra work better for my personality in particular. But at the same time, I don't really want to leave Theravada behind because it worked so well on a number of other facets. So trying to combine both and find similarities... But it is tough. My Vajrayana teacher suggests I do Tara and mahanmudra practice in the morning and my Theravada samatha at nights. But I vascilate.

I am still yet to have an insight in Vajrayana as penetrative into reality as a jhana. But being a lay person, jhanas don't come around very often, so never mind that. Actually my current Vajrayana teacher (a monk) said he would have considered Theravada if he chose to go the solitude path instead of living in society. I found that interesting.

Please write more, I'm very interested in hearing your path. Thanks!

Yuriy


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heart and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group