William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby plwk » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:21 am

:lol:
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby Mr. G » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:28 am

longjie wrote:"Subhuti, what do you think? Does a bodhisattva accuse others of search engine optimization?"

"No Bhagavan. Why? If a bodhisattva is holding a notion of a self, a notion of others, a notion of search engines, or a notion of optimization, then this is not one to be called a bodhisattva."

"Just so, Subhuti. Bodhisattvas should abide thusly and dwell thusly, not giving rise to notions of Google searches."


“What does the Venerable Gotama assert, what does he preach?”

“I am one who asserts that which ought to be done, brahman, and one who asserts that which ought not to be done which is subversive SEO.”

Really, what is the point in continuing this thread? Half of it has been pointless metaphysical debate (stirred up because some people can't accept talk about samadhi and physical transformations), and much of the rest consisted of accusations and defenses (unnecessary and disrespectful).


The point of continuing the thread is that the one's who care to do so can perhaps provide citations for/against samadhi and physical transformations or other related topics. The accusations are based on a website for the very first post in this thread. I've moved on already. :coffee:

:focus:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby greentreee » Mon May 28, 2012 5:30 pm

Big Bump here...

i stumbled on this thread a couple hours ago, and have one short comment to make.

when i first got interested in buddhism, it was kind of by accident. some friends of mine went to the movies to see a movie which was sold out, so we decided to see 7 Years in Tibet, mostly because i suggested that the cinematography would be pretty cool. a couple months down the road, a friend of mine had a small little catalogue that consisted of a variety of books from different authors, each from various backgrounds and little write ups about the books. i decided to get Master Nan's Working Towards Enlightenment and To Realize Enlightment. from what i can remember what i chose was due to what resonated the most with me since i had no real knowledge of anything buddhist at the time. The other thing that i still recall was the list of things that was contained in the book in which i may benefit from and that one thing was called "psychic defense", which ultimately was an advertisement by the publishing company.

up until recently i had no idea who mr bodri was, infact i still don't, yet i had read his introduction in Working Towards Enlightenment, but really the name never stuck. I did a search a couple weeks ago and stumbled on the website mentioned in this thread to notice that there is another Mastern Nan related book. I too am/was skeptical of the site, but i remember how it was that i first decided to buy those Master Nan books in the first place. was i disappointed there was no chapter in his books titled "psychic defense"? absolutely not.

my only regret was not purchasing 5 copies of each book at the time.

also , i'm not much of buddhist, but every school does advertise something.
scratching thick hair'd head,
"if air can be conditioned,
like where's the shampoo?"

"greentreee"
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby passionforzen » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:58 am

longjie wrote:Nan Huaijin is actually one of the most important and well-respected masters in Chinese Buddhism, and has quite a reputation in other fields as well. Earlier in his life he was a military commander and led a retaliation against the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese War. After this, he ended his military career and had a Chan awakening, and then went to live as a hermit in the Emei mountains for several years verifying his enlightenment against the Chinese Buddhist canon. He also lived in Tibet for some time, and became an acarya in the Kagyu line. When the Communist revolution came, he left for Taiwan with a very large number of ancient Daoist and Buddhist texts, to preserve them in case they were wiped out in mainland China. In Taiwan he became well known as a scholar and university professor, always teaching Buddhism, Daoism, and Confucianism, and generally acting as a paragon for traditional Chinese culture. His books on Confucianism are now used as standard textbooks on the subject in Taiwan, and dozens of books have been published in his name. I use the phrase "published in his name" because they were basically transcripts of his lectures. Still, he has sold millions of copies and is counted as a well-known Chinese author.

Later Nan Huaijin moved to Hong Kong, and then finally to China in Jiangsu province near Suzhou, where he built a massive education center focusing on meditation and spiritual development, as well as an international school. Apart from all this, he is also a high-level spiritual advisor to Chinese officials, and even arranged secret talks between China and Taiwan. In other words, he's a Buddhist master in high places. As for his books, for my part, I have never read any material from any modern works that match his in depth and comprehensiveness. Good examples of this are Working Toward Enlightenment and To Realize Enlightenment. But of course nobody understands their English translations due to the basic content, so he is virtually unknown in this part of the world. At the beginning of Working Toward Enlightenment, he says something like "The texts we will be drawing upon in these lectures are ...", and then proceeds to list over a dozen sutras and sastras including some major long works such as the Yogacarabhumi Sastra. The vast majority of his audience is monastic and is assumed to have some degree of expertise in the Buddhist texts and doctrines already. Although I am trying to convey his teaching style and context, this still does not amount to a good description.

As for William Bodri, he is a student of Nan Huaijin who has spent a lot of time with him in Asia, so it is basically a master-student relationship. In his teachings, though, William Bodri has some distinct disadvantages compared to other teachers. (1) His writings are disorganized and extremely casual. He won't talk entirely in a Buddhist context or otherwise, he freely uses any source he deems useful at the moment, and he generally cares very little about what anyone else thinks of him. (2) He is extremely eclectic, with his site carrying everything from details explanations of esoteric transformations and development of the Sambhogakaya, to the calculation of karma using some rare iron abacus methods, to material on nutrition and alternative health. People who are expecting a very dignified and purely Buddhist master would never believe him, although Chinese Buddhists might due to the cultural connection between some of these subjects. (3) He attempts to market his books and materials, which is every bit his right to do so, but this certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth of some others. Everyone wants a Buddhist master who will teach them sublime pure Buddhism, which of course eschews things like money for time, etc. In other words, they are basing their search for a teacher on appearances.

Now, that having been said, William Bodri is the real deal. I read little outside the Buddhist sutras, but when I do, it is typically something from Nan Huaijin or William Bodri. I feel that most other books from modern authors offer a lot of fluff written by so-called gurus or masters which are either academic, shallow, or feel-good inspirational. William Bodri is like one of the old Chan masters who does everything on his own terms, scares away the unworthy students, and keeps around those with perception of truth. He has a crazy streak in this way, and part of this comes from his teacher as well. (On one occasion, Nan Huaijin feigned insanity so a National Geographic crew would leave him alone, and then was back to normal immediately after they left.)

If anyone is curious about Nan Huaijin's books, I would recommend Tao & Longevity, which focuses on physical transformations during cultivation. This book turned me from Daoist meditation over to studying and practicing Buddhism. After reading this book, I realized that many years of Daoist meditation had been for nothing, that my knowledge of cultivation had been so far from complete, and this book resolved so clearly many misconceptions. In the process, I gave up Daoism to study Buddhist meditation instead, essentially because I was so impressed with this one little paperback. After I began to read Working Toward Enlightenment, I knew this was the right choice. Of William Bodri's books, the best is his book on Anapana, which is actually a set of lectures that Nan Huaijin gave to Peter Senge from MIT, which was translated into English from the Chinese edition of the book.

In any case, best wishes to all. Apologies for the long post, but I felt this information might be helpful.

This is a photo of Nan Huaijin's main Chan teacher, a lay master named Yuan Huanxian. He burned off two of his fingers as an austerity (similar to Xuyun), and copied the entire Avatamsaka Sutra using his own blood. Apparently Nan helped him to publish a book or two in Chinese (posthumously?), but I know little else about him except a few stories.

Image

Here is a photo of Nan Huaijin in the 1940's when he was a hermit on Mount Emei.

Image



I have purchased several of his materials. This last time I purchased his "Anapana chis converations of Master Nan Huai-Chin and Peter Senge." along with his cd's. I sent Mr. Bodri an email telling him I enjoyed his materials and asked him what he thought of the Digha Nikaya, Majjhima Nikaya and the Samyutta Nikaya and if he would ever use these writing to cross reference his work as I would really be interested in what he had to say. Mr. Bodri came off in his response to my email like a very rude person tearing apart my email. Mr. Bodri did not come off like a person of integrity. I mean he speaks constantly about Merit and how important it is to help others, not to mention Merit is as important as practice and without it you can't be enlightened. Here he tears apart my message simply because he felt like it for no rhyme or reason. Is this behavior full of Merit?? He acted like someone who is out of control in his response. How does someone like him that states he is enlightened in not so many words behave is such manner disgracing the concept of Dharma itself. Before his outrageous response to my email I thought his material was very interesting, but now it calls into question all of his material which I have read. I have meet many good people in the Dharma community and all up until now have been gracious and very helpful. I even met the Dalai Lama when he went to my local university and gave his lecture. I went up to him after the talk and shook his hand. He shook my hands and smiled at me. I mean the Dalai Lama is what I expect of someone who teaches and shows us the way to the Dharma. This guy Bodri is the opposite of what I expect of someone living the Dharma.
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby Taijibum » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:14 am

Bumping. I did a search for Bill Bodri after reading a couple of his books and this is the only place I found talking about him. He has some of the most advanced stuff on mysticism I have ever found. My only complaint is that he really needs an editor. When someone has in their title "short" or "brief" and then proceeds to write a book with 700 pages....

I've never tried to contact him. Anybody have anymore info on him?
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby b0dhimind » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:47 pm

It really would've been great to tune into this conversation without the obsessive fear of SEO.

There are a TON of FREE articles on meditationexpert.com as someone already mentioned. When I started reading his stuff ten years ago, I spent almost a half year trying to go through the articles.
I had no money and was a kid back then and I emailed the author thanking him for his free articles and he gave me a few free books! I very much needed such non-denominational texts as I had been a devout Islamic practitioner and was Practicing well but without direction towards the Ultimate goal.

It goes without saying when I actually bought his (expensive) books I treasured it quite a bit and read it very thoroughly...

To this day, the book I bought, How to measure and deepen your spiritual realization, is STILL one of the top 5 that exist in my MASSIVE library of spiritual texts. It talks about a lot of helpful spiritual models for our analytical minds as well as how to evaluate your own progress on this Way that has no name.

**I recommend everyone try to steal it from the internet and put in the time to finish it word for word (and donate to the author later he's instantly helpful when you email him about your problems).**
It will be your compass against the BS even though it is my belief that more and more correct spiritual information is being disseminated. :-)

I'm really disappointed actually that since I started reading his material over ten years ago his material has not gained as much popularity as easier to read dharma texts that cannot even compare to his books. Also I've been reading Kosta Danaos's stuff and he's got Taoist stuff that Master Nan would even approve of. Read Measuring first though.
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby b0dhimind » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:54 pm

Taijibum wrote:Bumping. I did a search for Bill Bodri after reading a couple of his books and this is the only place I found talking about him. He has some of the most advanced stuff on mysticism I have ever found. My only complaint is that he really needs an editor. When someone has in their title "short" or "brief" and then proceeds to write a book with 700 pages....

I've never tried to contact him. Anybody have anymore info on him?


I hope I provided enough information on him. If you have a pressing spiritual matter then learn how to describe it and email him if you need to. He's helpful and too generous. Which is why he will probably never see the market and be famous only after he dies.

As for the "short" book LOL you're right I thought the same thing until I read it the 2nd time and after I read some of the referential material... there's a LOT of dharma knowledge for every dharma topic! The Buddhist library is absolutely necessary to acquire if you want to get Complete Enlightenment. Diamond Sutra, Surangama Sutra, and get all of master nan's books.

The Taoist library is also massively important in this day and age if you choose to live among society and enjoy sex. Learn about non ejaculatory orgasm.

Or you can realize that you can might not wake up tomorrow morning in this body and ignore everything except dhyana teachings and just set your priorities straight like a true Zen bodhisattva-style. :thumbsup:
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby ylee111 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:20 am

Astus wrote:"he is too obscure in the West"

Haven't read much from him but from that little Nan reads quite like Hsuan Hua. Not pleasant to me.


Even though the comment was made a while ago can you elaborate Astus? I am thinking of picking up some of Nan's books on Amazon.
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby Taijibum » Tue May 06, 2014 1:26 pm

b0dhimind wrote:
Taijibum wrote:Bumping. I did a search for Bill Bodri after reading a couple of his books and this is the only place I found talking about him. He has some of the most advanced stuff on mysticism I have ever found. My only complaint is that he really needs an editor. When someone has in their title "short" or "brief" and then proceeds to write a book with 700 pages....

I've never tried to contact him. Anybody have anymore info on him?


I hope I provided enough information on him. If you have a pressing spiritual matter then learn how to describe it and email him if you need to. He's helpful and too generous. Which is why he will probably never see the market and be famous only after he dies.

As for the "short" book LOL you're right I thought the same thing until I read it the 2nd time and after I read some of the referential material... there's a LOT of dharma knowledge for every dharma topic! The Buddhist library is absolutely necessary to acquire if you want to get Complete Enlightenment. Diamond Sutra, Surangama Sutra, and get all of master nan's books.

The Taoist library is also massively important in this day and age if you choose to live among society and enjoy sex. Learn about non ejaculatory orgasm.

Or you can realize that you can might not wake up tomorrow morning in this body and ignore everything except dhyana teachings and just set your priorities straight like a true Zen bodhisattva-style. :thumbsup:

Bumping again. Garrigou-Lagrange wrote a huge Catholic mystical tome called "Ages of the Soul" about 1500 pages long. I read it and got almost nothing from it. Then I found his short 120 or so page paper back version of it that his publisher asked him to write and was blown away. After reading that I went back to the huge one and started reading it very slowly. I think Bill should do the same thing to "Measuring Meditation". That is such an amazing book I would love to see it in a short paper back and put it in every spiritual seekers back pocket. People need a gateway. Mine was a short paper back called "The Cloud of Unknowing". I think if "Measuring" was made as a short paperback NOT A 500 PAGE PAPER BACK, but a short one it would change the world.

I am celibate and a member of a Korean Zen sangha. I have all of Master Nan's books. I don't really under stand them. I am not the brightest bulb in the pack, but I meditate a lot. So there's that…...
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby b0dhimind » Wed May 07, 2014 9:37 pm

Taijibum wrote:
b0dhimind wrote:
Taijibum wrote:Bumping. I did a search for Bill Bodri after reading a couple of his books and this is the only place I found talking about him. He has some of the most advanced stuff on mysticism I have ever found. My only complaint is that he really needs an editor. When someone has in their title "short" or "brief" and then proceeds to write a book with 700 pages....

I've never tried to contact him. Anybody have anymore info on him?


I hope I provided enough information on him. If you have a pressing spiritual matter then learn how to describe it and email him if you need to. He's helpful and too generous. Which is why he will probably never see the market and be famous only after he dies.

As for the "short" book LOL you're right I thought the same thing until I read it the 2nd time and after I read some of the referential material... there's a LOT of dharma knowledge for every dharma topic! The Buddhist library is absolutely necessary to acquire if you want to get Complete Enlightenment. Diamond Sutra, Surangama Sutra, and get all of master nan's books.

The Taoist library is also massively important in this day and age if you choose to live among society and enjoy sex. Learn about non ejaculatory orgasm.

Or you can realize that you can might not wake up tomorrow morning in this body and ignore everything except dhyana teachings and just set your priorities straight like a true Zen bodhisattva-style. :thumbsup:

Bumping again. Garrigou-Lagrange wrote a huge Catholic mystical tome called "Ages of the Soul" about 1500 pages long. I read it and got almost nothing from it. Then I found his short 120 or so page paper back version of it that his publisher asked him to write and was blown away. After reading that I went back to the huge one and started reading it very slowly. I think Bill should do the same thing to "Measuring Meditation". That is such an amazing book I would love to see it in a short paper back and put it in every spiritual seekers back pocket. People need a gateway. Mine was a short paper back called "The Cloud of Unknowing". I think if "Measuring" was made as a short paperback NOT A 500 PAGE PAPER BACK, but a short one it would change the world.

I am celibate and a member of a Korean Zen sangha. I have all of Master Nan's books. I don't really under stand them. I am not the brightest bulb in the pack, but I meditate a lot. So there's that…...


Can you condense a 1000 page encyclopedia into 50 pages? Can you condense those 50 pages into 1 page. And then can you condense that 1 page into 1 word? Sure: mindfulness.
"Mindfulness is the way to liberation." --Buddha

Will this reductionism help you sort through your experiences? No.
Is it scientifically useful? Hell no.

Did Bill Bodri already condense a lot of the core spiritual writings and give it a VERY scientific spin and show how it all relates to the ENTIRE spiritual path all the way up to Buddhahood?? Damn right he did! You must come back to it after you get 1st level samadhi/jhana, and after that, and after that... etc.

If you want something shorter, Bill published a new book called "The Little Book of Meditation" and "The Little Book of Hercules" both which are great. No need to wait for the "world to change." Let the world go to hell, as it is has been foretold it will. Do the most good you can, cultivate as much as you can, and get your life straightened out. Don't wait for the world to change, your chance to cultivate will pass before you know it.

I'm not sure if you know what that means but if you have the merit to possess those things, you better realize that its worth more than a billion trillion dollars... especially if you full-heartedly practice it. Because you definitely won't have these teachings when you die and turn into an animal or ghost and cycle through karmic retribution.

Be grateful. You are one of the luckiest men alive to have all of Master Nan's books.
Read them all, gulp them down.
Especially "To Realize Enlightenment"
Read them and THROW yourself into the pictures he paints, leaving behind all the worldly attachments.
Do anapana.

If you have a busy life like me and are building your career, going to school, and learning about other things, then I suggest making a couple hours every night while I make time the rest of the day to study for school and meditate in between.
It's more importan than dating, sex, sitting on the couch, etc.

If one is so lazy about the reading part, which doesn't take long, there is 0% chance one will ever sit down and Practice.
What fueled me when I started reading was my burning questions: what is Enlightenment? What are the powers? What are the benefits? Can I keep this body forever? Can I keep my personality forever? Dive into Bill's book with your questions burning in your heart... You are a sperm on its way to the Cosmic Egg. Don't stop halfway or worse, at just the lips.
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby Taijibum » Thu May 08, 2014 6:11 pm

I have also bought everything Bodri has published. These are the three books closest to me. I meditate 3-4 hours a day, but I am not really that smart. I just want something more condensed and simple.
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Re: William Bodri and Nan Huai-Chin

Postby Saoshun » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:41 pm

Someone know other students of this great master? On one lesson he said about that he had a student who stick with him for 30 years.
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