Does Vajrasattva exist?

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Re: Does Vajrasattva exist?

Postby hop.pala » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:55 pm

" One who grasps the view that the Tathagata exi
sts,
Having seized the Buddha,
Constructs conceptual fabrications
About one who has achieved nirvana.
67. Since he is by nature empty,
The thought that the Buddha
Exists or does not exist
After nirvana is not appropriate.
68. Those who develop mental fabrications with reg
ard to the Buddha,
Who has gone beyond all fabrications,
As a consequence of those cognitive fabrications,
Fail to see the Tathagata."
Nagarjuna
hop.pala
 
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Re: Does Vajrasattva exist?

Postby smcj » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:40 am

hop.pala wrote:" One who grasps the view that the Tathagata exi
sts,
Having seized the Buddha,
Constructs conceptual fabrications
About one who has achieved nirvana.
67. Since he is by nature empty,
The thought that the Buddha
Exists or does not exist
After nirvana is not appropriate.
68. Those who develop mental fabrications with reg
ard to the Buddha,
Who has gone beyond all fabrications,
As a consequence of those cognitive fabrications,
Fail to see the Tathagata."
Nagarjuna

Yep. Sounds like Nagarjuna. Definitely 2nd Turning of the Wheel perspective.
smcj
 
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Does Vajrasattva exist?

Postby hop.pala » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:06 am

No contradiction:
Mipam on Buddha- nature:
"Mipam states that it is inportant to integrate as noncontradictory the Buddhas's teachings of emptiness,which elucidate the essence of Buddhanature,with the teaching of the primordial endowment of qualities,which elucidate the nature of Buddha nature.He reveals that the essencial point to the resolution of the issue of Buddha-nature of emptiness is the indivisibility of two truthts."
(ground of the nyingma tradition)

...
"61. Nirvana is said to be
Neither existent nor non-existent.
If the existent and the nonexistent were establishe
d,
This would be established.
...
62. Having passed into nirvana, the Victorious Con
queror
Is neither said to be existent
Nor said to be nonexistent.
Neither both nor neither are said.
63. So, when the victorious one abides, he
Is neither said to be existent
Nor said to be nonexistent.
Neither both nor neither are said.
64. There is not the slightest difference
Between cyclic existence and nirvana.
There is not the slightest difference
Between nirvana and cyclic existence. "
Nagarjuna

Middle way is still middle way.
hop.pala
 
Posts: 132
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Re: Does Vajrasattva exist?

Postby smcj » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:59 am

As I am known to be fond of quoting, the contemporary Karma Kagyu orthodoxy says:

This non-conceptual Wisdom Mind (Skt. jnana) is not the object of the conceptualizing process and so is not negated by Madhyamaka reasoning. Therefore, it can be said to be the only thing that has absolute and true existence.

Khenpo Tsultrim Gyatso, "Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness" pg.66.
smcj
 
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Re: Does Vajrasattva exist?

Postby hop.pala » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:34 am

So good.So true that nonconceptual.Some thing maybe explanable with the tri-svabhava teaching from Vasubandhu.In "Mipam on Buddha- nature" also found to be further refined statements.
hop.pala
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 3:48 am

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