Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

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Inge
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Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Postby Inge » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:17 pm

So many people speak about samaya, but it is my impression that they, like me, have no idea what samaya really is.
I have never read a satisfactory explanation, neither in books, nor online. Nor have I heard any teacher explain this properly.

In your knowledge, what exactly is samaya?

KonchokZoepa
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:18 pm

Garchen Rinpoche says that the main samaya is to have love and compassion to all sentient beings.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

KonchokZoepa
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:21 pm

If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

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futerko
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby futerko » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:27 pm

For me, Samaya is a two-way commitment to uphold the teachings, i.e. for the student, a commitment to practice.

narraboth
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby narraboth » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:26 pm


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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby conebeckham » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:31 pm

You should get a copy of "Buddhist Ethics" which is the volume of Kongtrul's encyclopedia where he outlines, in detail, the various types and systems of samaya.

It's a big subject, with no easy answer, but basically it means "commitment," and depending on one's practice and one's relationship to lineage and teacher, the details will vary.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

ngodrup
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby ngodrup » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:55 pm

Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the three vows, a commentary by H. H. Dudjom Rinpoche
on the root text by Ngari Panchen.

Samaya applies mainly between disciple and master, and between vajra siblings where
empowerment has been taken. Of course, it extends beyond that too, but--
no samaya, no vajrayana; no empowerment, so samaya. You may have a teacher for example
who doesn't give wangs-- in that case, no samaya unless you are both disciples of the same Lama.
On the other hand, nearly everybody has taken empowerment from HH the Dalai Lama for example...
Something to consider.

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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby conebeckham » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:11 pm

http://www.shambhala.com/the-treasury-o ... -five.html

More about Samaya than you ever wanted to know......heh heh.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Wayfarer
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:40 pm

Samaya is simply your meditation practice and the other things you do to support that. If you get up in the morning and sit, that is samaya. It is similar to 'sadhana' which means 'means of accomplishing' or 'means of crossing over'.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby conebeckham » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:07 am

I feel that's incorrect.

Samaya means "commitment." It's not merely about commitment to a formal practice period. For example, a HYT samaya is to "not disparage women." Now, that seems a bit quaint...but for the time, it was pretty radical. And how about "Maintaining a Bell And Vajra?" That is another HYT samaya.


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Wayfarer
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Location: Sydney AU

Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Wayfarer » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:34 am

As a matter of interest, is there any equivalence between 'samaya' and 'sadhana'? The latter is more associated with Yoga-Vedanta, but it means ' to practice something as a discipline, in order to learn from it, and make it a regular life habit.' I would have thought the meanings were equivalent.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Karma Dorje » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:52 am

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Konchog1
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Konchog1 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:57 am

Samaya or pledges are things that you promise the deity to do during empowerment. Samvara or vows are things that you promise not to do. One of the common samaya is to keep your Samvara.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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Inge
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Inge » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:31 pm

Thanks for the input, and reading recommendations.

I've earlier read "Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the three vows, a commentary" by H. H. Dudjom Rinpoche. It did not clarify things for me at that time.

I have started to study "Buddhist Ethics", hopefully it is explained in a way that I can understand in that book.

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heart
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby heart » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:54 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

montana
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby montana » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:30 pm

Samaya is the promises that make our behavior match the deities and binds us together.

There are many many many different articulations of samaya, but the essence of it is the same if the vows come from a valid transmitter of the deity.

I added that "if" because there are some ego maniacs giving modified vows for the purpose of manipulating the unlucky people that mistook them for a vow holder and took vows.
If you took vows from one of these ego maniacs, you can't break samaya with them because they don't represent the deity(or triple gem).
People caught in one of these traps worry they'll be faulting the deities if they leave their ego maniac lama, but that's not the case.
In fact, your connection with the deities will become stronger when you leave because what you were doing under that ego lama was distancing you from them.

jigmeeaton
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby jigmeeaton » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:00 pm

This book also helps clarify samaya:
Treasury of Precious Qualities: Book Two by Jigme Lingpa

T. Chokyi
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:27 pm


Alfredo
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Alfredo » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:13 am

(no longer participating on this board)

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Konchog1
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Postby Konchog1 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:15 am

Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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