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Other conditions today??? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Other conditions today???

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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ground
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby ground » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:27 am


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Hanzze
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Hanzze » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:04 am

I would say, exactly that what some call knowledge is that what make it much more difficult. The knowledge bubble is so big, that many take it for real and it is much more difficult to find a way out of this labyrinth. But also here a matter of your own merits in the past: Did you believe all what was taught to you since you had opened the eyes in this very live... I guess we even have developed great mechanism to maintain those believes very well.

There is a nice experience I would like to tell:

Once I was asked from kids (rice farmer children) to explain mathematics. They usually have real problem to understand math especial if it turns under zero. The problem was to understand numbers under zero like 0.5 or 1/2. They could not get it. Then I took a potato, cut it into two pieces. Putting them together I aksed: "What is this?" "A potato." Then I divided (harming in the name of science) it, showed them one part and asked them again and they answered: "A potato" I replayed, yes but how of what amount: "A piece" "And if I cut one whole it in the middle?" "two pieces".

I simply started to laugh and thought: "How stupid we are to teach people such illusions and fiction as something like a real half would never exist." How ever they need to learn the common fiction to be able to lead a harmonious live and understand what people like to talk about.

Worldly Science is good to understand that worldly science is a trappy fiction and just conditioned by much creativity (karma).
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:15 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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ground
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby ground » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:40 am


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manas
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby manas » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:55 am

(edited out: a bit harsh, in retrospect.)

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:09 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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ground
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby ground » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:43 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:32 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:29 pm

hey cittasanto,
i practice vipassana meditation as taught by s.n.goenka, who teaches that this method of meditation is the preserved teaching of the buddha. this method agrees with me personally, but i do not believe this is the only practice that can lead to liberation. in my own case, i led a life chasing after every possible pleasure available, i pursued money , climbed mountains, traveled exstensively, chased women, took intoxicants,etc...... ; all the time desperately looking for peace of mind. finally, i hit my bottom, i saw what i had become, the single most wretched human on the face of the earth and in a flash, an instant, i understood the futility of everything(there was clarity). i began a process of eliminating everything out of my life that was not absolutly neccessary for my survival, my wife freaked out, but i kept going with the understanding that these changes were for the greater good, and with the understanding that if i became a better person as a result of these changes she would not want to leave. i then came across a book by eckhart tolle(the new earth). this book introduced me to the human ego, and to god, two things i was afraid to look at because of ignorance and previous mental conditioning, and the reward for looking at these two things was another huge weight of karmic debt gone forever. this book was very liberating but it was not enough i still had anger buried deep inside me, this led to my arrival on the steps of a buddhist temple. learning to meditate, reading the teachings of the buddha i realized that the teachings of eckhart tolle are the same as the teachings of the buddha but it was eckhart tolle who reached me, and i will forever be thankful to that man and his teachings. but eckharts actual practice did not work for me, neither did the practice at the temple i was going to. someone mentioned goenka's retreat and when i read about the strict code of conduct the intensive sittings something in side me said this is what you need to do. i went and boom another huge chunk of karmic debt was gone forever. i kept going back and developing my practice, and then it just happened for me, an experience if you want to call it that, and with the maturity of knowledge of this experience, all my doubt about the teachings was eliminated, i had found what i had been looking for, and a great peace has come over me. now when i listen to the teachings of eckhart tolle, the buddha, krishnamurti , and other enlightened beings i have a deeper understanding of their words. so the enlightened beings of this day and age will use whatever knowledge is available to teach the message, and meditation teachers will use different methods to take people to the same destination. the important thing is to find the truth and be able to recognise the truth in its many wonderful forms. do not be to attatched to this buddha or that buddha, this method or that method, what works for you may not work for others. the buddha's teachings are just as relevent today, they are timeless, but we have to open our self to these teachings first. my hope is that others do not have to go through the torture that i did to find them.
metta,
jason

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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:43 pm

Hi Jason,
Interesting but isn't what is being asked here, please see the OP.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:06 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:28 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 am

Re: Other conditions today???

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:43 pm

hey cittasanto,
i have to run out, i could try to answer each question individually in more detail later .
i feel i have answered and agreed with mostly your views, my only squabble is how people find the teachings of the buddhas today. it doesn't have to come in a particular package. the essence and destination is what is of relevance.
metta,
jason

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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:25 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Kamran
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Kamran » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:58 pm

One difference is that we are inundated with far more information than in the Buddha's time.

Marketing, 24 hours news, ads, political propaganda, and multitude of screens are constantly distracting our a attention.

The Buddha once compared sensory input to a flayed cow with no skin, and every where the cow went insects would bore into its flesh.

I think there are more insects boring into our us than there were in the Buddha's time.
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:56 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Kamran
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Kamran » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:46 pm

Hi Cittasanto,

I admittedly only have a vague idea of what life was like in the Buddha's time. I imagine an agricultural society where most people work as manual laborers with no electricity, so that it is quiet and peaceful at night.

Whereas in most modern societies more people work with their minds, and scientific studies have shown that the body uses more energy with mental work than in physical labor.

For instance, an engineer in a high pressure job does not stop thinking about work when he leaves his job. A manual laborer does not think about his job when the day is over, he just goes home and has a beer or something....

On the other hand, maybe in the Buddha's time thoughts of getting enough food for your family, and diseases that we don't have to worry about were more common.
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

jason c
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 pm


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ground
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby ground » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:40 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Other conditions today???

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:40 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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