Deleting Dukkha

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Rick
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Deleting Dukkha

Post by Rick »

A bit of a silly question, perhaps, but that never stopped me before, so ...

Buddha provided the world with a methodology for eliminating personal suffering. Following that methodology entails loss ... of the pleasures of "un-right" (but enjoyable) thought. Depending on just how pleasurable one finds one's un-right thought, that loss can be HUGE, like a personal death.

Is it possible to have everything in one's life/mind remain (pretty much) the same, but just to eliminate the dukkha from it?

If, for example, one did not attach to any thoughts, rather let them arise, live out their lives, and decay ... the suffering would be taken out of the equation without radically altering one's flow of thought.

Yes? No? Maybe? (None of the above?) ;-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
KonchokZoepa
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by KonchokZoepa »

nothing stays the same so no its not possible to eliminate dukkha while everything remains the same. for the reason is impermanence.

but to say something more helpful maybe, i think it is said in the teachings that you dont try to control the thoughts or force your thoughts to change. rather you let go and let be, and the positive transformation happens when you are not suppressing your thoughts and mental stuff. i dont think you need to alter your thoughts forcefully to eradicate dukkha. rather you need to study and apply correct meditation to change your perspective and view.. i think this brings about a natural transformation which alleviates dukkha.

but on the other hand if you cling to a certain ''unright thought '' i think that will itself be a cause for suffering and doesnt offer in itself an antidote to a release from the suffering of it.

also this label '' unright '' itself can create suffering whatnot a bunch of mental burden related to a mere label.

i think it is impossible to alleviate suffering if you dont familiarize yourself with the correct view and apply that in meditation and post meditation and uphold it in daily life. that will alleviate dukkha. nothing changes yet everything changes.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Inge
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by Inge »

rachmiel wrote:A bit of a silly question, perhaps, but that never stopped me before, so ...

Buddha provided the world with a methodology for eliminating personal suffering. Following that methodology entails loss ... of the pleasures of "un-right" (but enjoyable) thought. Depending on just how pleasurable one finds one's un-right thought, that loss can be HUGE, like a personal death.

Is it possible to have everything in one's life/mind remain (pretty much) the same, but just to eliminate the dukkha from it?

If, for example, one did not attach to any thoughts, rather let them arise, live out their lives, and decay ... the suffering would be taken out of the equation without radically altering one's flow of thought.

Yes? No? Maybe? (None of the above?) ;-)
When phenomena are neither grasped, rejected, nor ignored, they just unfold of their own accord, and suffering would not enter the picture.
dude
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by dude »

rachmiel wrote:A bit of a silly question, perhaps, but that never stopped me before, so ...

Buddha provided the world with a methodology for eliminating personal suffering. Following that methodology entails loss ... of the pleasures of "un-right" (but enjoyable) thought. Depending on just how pleasurable one finds one's un-right thought, that loss can be HUGE, like a personal death.

Is it possible to have everything in one's life/mind remain (pretty much) the same, but just to eliminate the dukkha from it?

If, for example, one did not attach to any thoughts, rather let them arise, live out their lives, and decay ... the suffering would be taken out of the equation without radically altering one's flow of thought.

Yes? No? Maybe? (None of the above?) ;-)
What you suggest is valid. Unskillful thoughts are a cause of suffering. If you can abandon attachment to it, you can observe it for what it is, penetrate it, and perceive for yourself why the thought in itself is suffering. After that it's no loss at all, because who wants to suffer?
............in other words, what KonchokZ said.
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Rick
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by Rick »

I guess what motivated me to post this question is that I notice that when I practice mindfulness, my sense of humor/whimsy pretty much disappears. (Normally it's a huge part of my way of being in the world and gives me (and others) lots of joy.) I become kind of earnest and quiet and passive, a bit dull, automaton-ish. If this is the price of mindfulness, I'm not at all sure I want to pay it. The loss of my way of feeling joie de vivre is way too expensive.

But, if the joie de vivre can continue *without* the suffering ... I'd take that deal. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by KonchokZoepa »

maybe you practice mindfulness too rigidly. or maybe your joys and jokes of ignorant deluded nature and you are more alert and not so twisty with your thoughts when practicing mindfulness. i guess observing will give you an answer to your ''why'' question.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by KonchokZoepa »

as to say something more, i dont seem mindfulness altering that much in anyway not in that sense that you are talking about, so maybe you are bit too tense or rigid with it and have some preconceived idea what mindfulness is....?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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lobster
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by lobster »

rachmiel wrote:I guess what motivated me to post this question is that I notice that when I practice mindfulness, my sense of humor/whimsy pretty much disappears. (Normally it's a huge part of my way of being in the world and gives me (and others) lots of joy.) I become kind of earnest and quiet and passive, a bit dull, automaton-ish. If this is the price of mindfulness, I'm not at all sure I want to pay it. The loss of my way of feeling joie de vivre is way too expensive.

But, if the joie de vivre can continue *without* the suffering ... I'd take that deal. :-)
As soon as I am 'doing meditation' or getting quiet, passive, feeling tranquillisation, chances are something is being done unskilfully . . . :smile:
You are describing spiritual medication, not meditation which increases the joy :woohoo:
Try mindful dancing with a corpse for Halloween . . . always makes me laugh . . . :hug:
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Wayfarer
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by Wayfarer »

I think as people in the world we need to acknowledge that we are invested in phenomena. We have interests, we are not above that even if we think we ought to be.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
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oushi
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by oushi »

rachmiel wrote:I guess what motivated me to post this question is that I notice that when I practice mindfulness, my sense of humor/whimsy pretty much disappears. (Normally it's a huge part of my way of being in the world and gives me (and others) lots of joy.) I become kind of earnest and quiet and passive, a bit dull, automaton-ish. If this is the price of mindfulness, I'm not at all sure I want to pay it. The loss of my way of feeling joie de vivre is way too expensive.

But, if the joie de vivre can continue *without* the suffering ... I'd take that deal. :-)
Maybe consult it with the person that taught you this practice.
Say what you think about me here.
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Paul
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by Paul »

rachmiel wrote:I guess what motivated me to post this question is that I notice that when I practice mindfulness, my sense of humor/whimsy pretty much disappears. (Normally it's a huge part of my way of being in the world and gives me (and others) lots of joy.) I become kind of earnest and quiet and passive, a bit dull, automaton-ish. If this is the price of mindfulness, I'm not at all sure I want to pay it. The loss of my way of feeling joie de vivre is way too expensive.

But, if the joie de vivre can continue *without* the suffering ... I'd take that deal. :-)
Well look at the great practitioners - they all have very healthy senses of humour. Almost child-like in many instances.

I also think that the following line from Tilopa is worth mulling over: "You are not bound by perceiving, But by clinging. So cut your clinging, Naropa!"
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
Simon E.
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by Simon E. »

rachmiel wrote:I guess what motivated me to post this question is that I notice that when I practice mindfulness, my sense of humor/whimsy pretty much disappears. (Normally it's a huge part of my way of being in the world and gives me (and others) lots of joy.) I become kind of earnest and quiet and passive, a bit dull, automaton-ish. If this is the price of mindfulness, I'm not at all sure I want to pay it. The loss of my way of feeling joie de vivre is way too expensive.

But, if the joie de vivre can continue *without* the suffering ... I'd take that deal. :-)
Meditation is not about feeling good..or feeling bad...or feeling whoo-hoo.
Its about waking up. Its about what is. With no additives or subtractions..its simple.
So simple we feel we have to plaster it over with feelings, or bliss.
As CTR used to say..its simply sitting with life as is. On the rocks. With no soda.
As others have said many experienced meditators are amusing and amused and relaxed.
But there is a world of difference between that and the kind of forced jollity and cracking wise that disguise our habitual fearfulness and anxiety.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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seeker242
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by seeker242 »

rachmiel wrote:I guess what motivated me to post this question is that I notice that when I practice mindfulness, my sense of humor/whimsy pretty much disappears. (Normally it's a huge part of my way of being in the world and gives me (and others) lots of joy.) I become kind of earnest and quiet and passive, a bit dull, automaton-ish. If this is the price of mindfulness, I'm not at all sure I want to pay it. The loss of my way of feeling joie de vivre is way too expensive.

But, if the joie de vivre can continue *without* the suffering ... I'd take that deal. :-)

I don't know. People like the Dalai Lama are pretty mindful and have a pretty good sense of humor as do many other wise teachers. I have never met a good teacher that acted like a robot. The best most wise ones are full of life, animation, vitality and mindfulness.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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lobster
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by lobster »

seeker242 wrote:I have never met a good teacher that acted like a robot. The best most wise ones are full of life, animation, vitality and mindfulness.
Exactly so.
More like a reboot than a robot. :twothumbsup:

You will find more bad students than bad teachers. After all some of us learn from the worst teachers, including ourselves. Some never learn, they expect someone to teach them a lesson. However who would take that responsibility unless overwhelmed with joy, humour and an empty bag of tricks and treats . . . ? :group:
Simon E.
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Re: Deleting Dukkha

Post by Simon E. »

If they are ' overwhelmed' by anything..they might teach and learn all sorts of stuff. But its unlikely to be the Buddha's Dharma.
Genuine Buddhist teachers fall into several camps. Some are jovial. Some are severe But they are all in control of their speech. Even the jovial ones. In fact particularly the jovial ones.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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