Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Knotty Veneer » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:52 pm

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Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it - Mark Twain.

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Karma Jinpa
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Karma Jinpa » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:22 pm

:good:

So precious! :heart:
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱས་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ


:namaste:

Outcast
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Outcast » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:28 pm

'When I learnt the circumstances of my brother's death and the identities of those who killed him and his nephew and driver, I felt extremely sorry for them because it shows how one moment of misguided anger can ruin so many lives. So, instead of feeling angry I feel compassion for them...'(Lama Yeshe)

OM-MANI-PADMA-HUM...Lama Thubten Kunsal.
http://vimeo.com/17865906

Stewart
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Stewart » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:04 am

It is very sad...I lived at Samye Ling at the same time as Thubten Kunsal, I knew him very well...I often cooked and ate supper with him, and went shopping to the city with him..he was/is a very talented artist....he was trusted and held and high regard at Samye Ling.

When he went back to China his mental health deteriorated...I heard he wasn't well a couple of years ago...but had no idea things were so bad with him...he now faces a firing squad, Lama Yeshe Rinpiche has formally requested he is spared, along with his accomplices...try to generate bodhicitta for them.
s.

Glyn
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Glyn » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:19 pm

Stewart wrote:Lama Yeshe Rinpiche has formally requested he is spared, along with his accomplices...try to generate bodhicitta for them.


Lama Yeshe Losal Rinpoche has to be one of the most forgiving people I have ever met. There was a sort of scandal caused by a monk at his monastery which was probably the worst thing ever in terms of PR. A few years later I see them both at an event in another country and the openness and love Lama Yeshe Rinpoche obviiously had for the guy was amazing.
"It's not ok to practice Dharma sometimes, just when you feel like it. You have to practice all the time" - Lama Rigzin Rinpoche.

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Knotty Veneer » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:53 pm

'When I learnt the circumstances of my brother's death and the identities of those who killed him and his nephew and driver, I felt extremely sorry for them because it shows how one moment of misguided anger can ruin so many lives. So, instead of feeling angry I feel compassion for them...'(Lama Yeshe)


Lama Yeshe also said:

We should all have the bodhisattva attitude of mind and feel compassion and forgiveness towards those responsible for Rinpoche’s death. I have been able to forgive and this is how I was freed from my suffering.


Anger at Thubten Kunsal, as Lama Yeshe's advice implies, is pointless. it does not undo Akong Rinpoche's murder. It does not punish Thubten Kunsal nor does it purify his negative karma. Anger only prolongs our own suffering at Rinpoche's loss. Only through forgiveness is anger lifted. Forgiving Akong Rinpoche's murderers allows us to remove our own suffering, move on and start to do something to resolve the problems that it has caused for Rinpoche's projects, his students and also for those who killed him.

I went to Samye Ling the weekend after Rinpoche was killed. I remember clearly Lama Yeshe saying that the statues etc. that Thubten Kunsal created there and in London Samye Dzong would remain. They will be reconsecrated but that's it. I was particularly struck by this

Events and objects affect us only if we allow them too. I had a tough time going into the small Shrine room that contains a beautiful 1000-armed Chenresig sculpted by Thubten Kunsal. Lama Yeshe reminded us that the problem is created by our minds and the associations that we choose to make. We should instead remember what the statue represents rather than who made it. A wonderful teaching.
Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it - Mark Twain.

Simon E.
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Simon E. » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:11 pm

:good:

The other thing I find slightly worrying about negative feelings, understandable though they are.... I know there has apparently been a confession, but has there been a trial ?
So long folks. If you want to find me for any reason. I'm on www.vajracakra.com

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Knotty Veneer » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Simon E. wrote:The other thing I find slightly worrying about negative feelings, understandable though they are.... I know there has apparently been a confession, but has there been a trial ?



I think the initial reponse from those who knew Thubten Kunsal was disbelief and that this was a fit-up but I don't think Samye Ling would be making the statements that they did if there was any real doubt about who did it. They may also have local information on what happened in addition to that provided by the Chengdu police. I think everyone at Samye Ling would love to discover that Thubten Kunsal was not responsible for this.

But you're right I suppose - he is only alleged to have done this. He has not been convicted of anything yet.

I think the trial will probably take a while.
Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it - Mark Twain.

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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Outcast » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:47 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:...the initial reponse from those who knew Thubten Kunsal was disbelief and that this was a fit-up...everyone at Samye Ling would love to discover that Thubten Kunsal was not responsible...

:good:

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Karma Jinpa
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Karma Jinpa » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:44 am

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"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱས་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ


:namaste:

narraboth
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby narraboth » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:25 pm

News from China. The two suspects, Tubten Kunsal and Tsering Pajor were found guilty for killing Akong Tulku on Friday and sentenced death penalty. They did appeal to higher court.
http://world.huanqiu.com/article/2016-01/8479376.html

Simon E.
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Simon E. » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:07 pm

narraboth wrote:News from China. The two suspects, Tubten Kunsal and Tsering Pajor were found guilty for killing Akong Tulku on Friday and sentenced death penalty. They did appeal to higher court.
http://world.huanqiu.com/article/2016-01/8479376.html


Not something that Akong Rinpoche would have wanted, And his brother, Lama Yeshe, stated some time ago that he hoped that the penalty would not be death.
So long folks. If you want to find me for any reason. I'm on www.vajracakra.com

narraboth
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby narraboth » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:44 pm

Simon E. wrote:
narraboth wrote:News from China. The two suspects, Tubten Kunsal and Tsering Pajor were found guilty for killing Akong Tulku on Friday and sentenced death penalty. They did appeal to higher court.
http://world.huanqiu.com/article/2016-01/8479376.html


Not something that Akong Rinpoche would have wanted, And his brother, Lama Yeshe, stated some time ago that he hoped that the penalty would not be death.


Of course not.
But well, it happened in a country with death penalty and the court made the conviction on its own standard. I personally don't see appealing will change the penalty (I don't see any 'legal reason' for higher court to change the sentence, with limited information I have). In China, once the appealing route is exhausted (the final court held the penalty), the practice of death sentence is often immediate.

Knotty Veneer
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Knotty Veneer » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:55 pm

This now reported in the British papers. How really, really sad. Akong Rinpoche would be appalled. Even though none of the families of those killed would want this, I'm sure, I fear the Chinese are not likely to listen.
Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it - Mark Twain.

narraboth
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby narraboth » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:45 pm

Knotty Veneer wrote:This now reported in the British papers. How really, really sad. Akong Rinpoche would be appalled. Even though none of the families of those killed would want this, I'm sure, I fear the Chinese are not likely to listen.


They probably wouldn't listen. But, in the non-Buddhist point of view, should they really?
I mean, if it happened in Texas, judge probably would consider the seriousness of the crime before listen to the families opinions? (Plus, for Gyurme Wangye, the driver who also got killed, we don't know what his families think)
According the court document, 42 wounds were found on Akong tulku's body, his nephew had 20. It's hard for legal system in any country not to put its hands hard upon people commiting that crime. It's not just about the Chinese. In our religious view, capital punishment is wrong. But some countries just have it, that's it.

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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Knotty Veneer » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:45 am

narraboth wrote:They probably wouldn't listen. But, in the non-Buddhist point of view, should they really?
I mean, if it happened in Texas, judge probably would consider the seriousness of the crime before listen to the families opinions? (Plus, for Gyurme Wangye, the driver who also got killed, we don't know what his families think)
According the court document, 42 wounds were found on Akong tulku's body, his nephew had 20. It's hard for legal system in any country not to put its hands hard upon people commiting that crime. It's not just about the Chinese. In our religious view, capital punishment is wrong. But some countries just have it, that's it.


The British Foreign office has issued a statement saying that it opposes the death penalty generally. I would not be surprised to learn that some appeal for clemency has been made. Samye Ling has not issued any statement on this. But, as you say, the Chinese are not likely to change the usual rules - especially as the murder was pre-meditated and so vicious. But they should consider the mental health of at least Thubten Kunsal - I remember at the time there were reports of him being mentally unwell after he returned to China.

it just makes a horrendous incident even worse. It's a terrible pity.
Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it - Mark Twain.

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skittles
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby skittles » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:13 am

I grabbed this from a website because it's easier and just as applicable as what might be fished out of my filing cabinets.

Secondary Bodhisattva Vows:
What is prohibited:
" (9) Not redressing those who act with disturbing emotions and attitudes

If we are in a position of authority in an office, school, monastery, or household and, because of attachment to certain members or the wish to be liked, we fail to scold or punish those with disturbing emotions and attitudes who are acting disruptively, we damage the discipline and morale of the entire group."
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... edges.html

It might be compassionate to them individually to not kill them, but it would be shortsighted when considering the welfare of China as a whole.

I'm saying this assuming they did it, and willingly.

I hope you all feel better soon.
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html

Simon E.
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Simon E. » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:48 am

it would be compassionate to the EXECUTIONERS not to kill them in view of karma-vipaka. The same is true of China as a whole.
So long folks. If you want to find me for any reason. I'm on www.vajracakra.com

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skittles
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby skittles » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:19 am

On your list of sins where you don't consider the context of an action, is killing higher on the list than choosing not to prevent a death?

How many times have you been enraged and on the verge of homicide when knowing the punishment of our legal systems subdued you and prevented you from doing something you would surely regret? Go to a lawless region of the world and you will see how common it is for people to murder their family members, lovers, and neighbors.

What is compassion without the wisdom deliberating on the long term consequences of our actions?
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html

Simon E.
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Re: Murder of Akong Rinpoche & Entourage

Postby Simon E. » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:29 am

skittles wrote:On your list of sins where you don't consider the context of an action, is killing higher on the list than choosing not to prevent a death?

How many times have you been enraged and on the verge of homicide when knowing the punishment of our legal systems subdued you and prevented you from doing something you would surely regret? Go to a lawless region of the world and you will see how common it is for people to murder their family members, lovers, and neighbors.

What is compassion without the wisdom deliberating on the long term consequences of our actions?


I have never ' been enraged and on the verge of homicide '. Never even close.

Which in any case does not alter the fact that executing murderers incurs the same karma-vipaka for the executioners as the original murders does for the accused.
So long folks. If you want to find me for any reason. I'm on www.vajracakra.com


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