Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:18 pm

that i dont know if it happens at death or not.

but i know that the Drikung Phowa tradition, the sadhana is called Jag-Tsug-Ma and it means standing blade of grass. and when you achieve accomplishment, when you put kusha grass on the top of your head, it stands there like a stick. at least the top of the head has soften or something happened there since when you stick a stick of kusha grass there, it stands by its own.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby ngodrup » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:48 pm

Not just in the Drikung P'howa.
Various Nyingma termas demonstrate this phenomenon.
One person I know practiced the Nam Cho P'howa are about 3 days
and the straw -- when it fell out of his head was wet about 1 inch, suggesting
that it was well inside his head. I've seen dozens of people at a Dudjom ter
P'howa retreat showing signs as well...
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:49 pm

a plastic straw ?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby disjointed » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:43 pm

I have read a blister on the head, itching, etc. is the sign that you've prepared the exit route so to speak.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby ngodrup » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:28 am

KonchokZoepa wrote:a plastic straw ?


No, a "piece of straw", as opposed to a "piece of grass" --
you know? like the kind of straw a broom is made of?

Kusha grass, maybe, but not the kind of you find in western lawns.
it's a thicker dry stalk that is dropped into the hole and stands up straight.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby smcj » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:00 am

You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Tenso » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:25 am

smcj wrote:You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!


How is phowa possible for people who die suddenly without knowing?
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:04 am

can anyone die without knowing. and i think phowa is actually possible also in the sipa bardo, im not 100% sure on this but since you can achieve nirmakaya liberation in the sipa bardo i would imagine that you could do phowa at that point also.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Simon E. » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:07 am

Nighthawk wrote:
smcj wrote:You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!


How is phowa possible for people who die suddenly without knowing?

Its not a conscious matter. The seeds ripen. It is as natural as the first breath at the beginning of the life span. That needs no cognition either.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Tenso » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:26 am

Simon E. wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:
smcj wrote:You get a pimple on your head. When it pops that's what the straw goes in.

We had a Dharma student here in L.A. that had learned the most basic form of the practice, which is meant for non-meditators. Then one day he died of a heart attack. They found him sitting up. He was bald and had a bright red spot on his head where your consciousness is supposed to exit. Evidently it worked!

As a footnote I think I should add that he was not well thought of or liked very much. In fact he was very annoying, but he had money that he would give to centers. So he was always in the middle of everything and making problems. In all honesty he drove everybody nuts. Plus he almost never actually practiced. So there's hope for us all!


How is phowa possible for people who die suddenly without knowing?

Its not a conscious matter. The seeds ripen. It is as natural as the first breath at the beginning of the life span. That needs no cognition either.


Then what is phowa? I thought it was all about ejecting your consciousness into a pure land and that requires some sort of effort. Someone who dies in a car accident wouldn't be able to do that.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Tenso » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:29 am

KonchokZoepa wrote:can anyone die without knowing. and i think phowa is actually possible also in the sipa bardo, im not 100% sure on this but since you can achieve nirmakaya liberation in the sipa bardo i would imagine that you could do phowa at that point also.


sipa bardo?
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Simon E. » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:32 am

What happens follows from receiving the empowerment, which frequently results in a spontaneous opening of the crown ..and from perfecting the Sadhana. It does not simply happen by willpower during the death process..
First you need to find a Phowa Master.
Ayang Rinpoche is one such. There are others.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Simon E. » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:40 am

Just to add I am assuming that the question is coming from a context of the Vajrayana.
The Dzogchen practice differs. But there are limits to what can be discussed about it.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:04 am

sipa bardo = bardo of becoming


yes , even Garchen Rinpoche says that if you have practiced phowa well then at the time of death you only need to remember amitabha and you automatically go up.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:06 am

after you master it or become sufficiently '' professional '' in it, the phowa becomes effortless and does not require effort at the time of death. it was said just few days ago in the teachings that when you are good in phowa you do not need to recite even the seed syllable of the practice. it happens automatically.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Lhasa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:52 pm

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche has experienced this, he describes having the blade of grass in his crown and his teacher left it there several days. Sorry, I don't remember which book he shares this in.
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby smcj » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:07 pm

Then what is phowa? I thought it was all about ejecting your consciousness into a pure land and that requires some sort of effort. Someone who dies in a car accident wouldn't be able to do that.

I learned it from Gonpo Tsedan R. (Nyingma). He said that there were 5 level of Phowa. 3 levels were for yogis only, and resulted in Dharmakaya, Sambogakaya, and Nirmanakaya realizations while still in alive in this body. The fourth level was what a realized lama did for a deceased person. The fifth level was what he was going to teach us, which was for non-meditators and was to be performed just before death if the person had the luxury of knowing that they were going to die. And yes, you are supposed to eject your consciousness out of the top of your head, hence the story I just told. If you got hit by a bus you wouldn't have time to do it and you were just out of luck.

At the week long course where R. taught it, the only person to get the full sign of accomplishment (a pimple you could stick kusha grass into) was my roommate that only went for one session. So it seems some people "get it" without a lot of effort.

after you master it or become sufficiently '' professional '' in it, the phowa becomes effortless and does not require effort at the time of death. it was said just few days ago in the teachings that when you are good in phowa you do not need to recite even the seed syllable of the practice. it happens automatically.

As you say, that scenario if for an accomplished, a.k.a. "professional" meditator. In the version I was taught (for non-meditators) you've got to have time to do the practice just before death.
Last edited by smcj on Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby Lhasa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:57 pm

Lhasa wrote:Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche has experienced this, he describes having the blade of grass in his crown and his teacher left it there several days. Sorry, I don't remember which book he shares this in.


I found the story in his book, Wonders of the Natural Mind, in the chapter titled, 'My Life and Experiences of the Teaching.'
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Re: Does Phowa create a hole in the cranium?

Postby KonchokZoepa » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:12 pm

smcj wrote:
after you master it or become sufficiently '' professional '' in it, the phowa becomes effortless and does not require effort at the time of death. it was said just few days ago in the teachings that when you are good in phowa you do not need to recite even the seed syllable of the practice. it happens automatically.

As you say, that scenario if for an accomplished, a.k.a. "professional" meditator. In the version I was taught (for non-meditators) you've got to have time to do the practice just before death.


Garchen Rinpoche said in his last teachings that it is enough that you can recall Amitabha, no visualization or recitation is required if you have made the pathway clear and have achieved accomplishment in the practice.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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