The 6 realms

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The 6 realms

Postby max123 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:49 pm

If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby flowerbudh » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:56 am

This is a good question! Reality is subjective and I think that most people only have access to the two realms because it's what they've opened their hearts to and what makes the most sense to them. Maybe it has something to do with karma? That being said, I have a friend who has seen ghosts and maybe it is because she has allowed herself to see them. Our minds block out so much of tangible reality, you know.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby Lindama » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:12 am

max123 wrote:If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?


As I understand, all six realms exists in this very body.... they are energies that we all have within us and live with .... for example, god realm is when I get too arrogant... etc... demi-gods are envious... all of them can be identified within us. And, they all have variations in the three kayas which we can connect with. As far as seeing all of them.... they are within your very being just like Buddha nature, neither separate from any other. I was taught this as a skillful means for bringing them to consciousness and purifying suffering. Not every realm in all directions is applicable to all of us... we discover that also. It's actually a very honest way of seeing, experiencing and having compassion for what causes us suffering... and a way to transform it. That's about the best that I can do... I am not an expert on this topic. But, it left it's mark on me.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby sukhamanveti » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:13 am

max123 wrote:If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?


Because ordinary consciousness has limits. Not everything is normally visible to ordinary beings. (Also, many of these unseen beings are usually located in other realms.) We've confirmed the existence of many things outside of the ordinary range of perception, such as the infrared and ultraviolet portions of the electromagnetic spectrum, radio waves, microwaves, etc. Physicist Michio Kaku has pointed out that any being that might exist in 10 dimensions would easily be able hide from our view (and perform seemingly "miraculous" feats). We can't currently, directly perceive dark matter, but can only infer its existence from its effects. However, the Buddha and many other past masters were able to see devas, pretas, asuras, narakas, and other non-human beings grouped with them.
namo bhagavate śākyamunaye tathāgatāyārhate samyaksaṁbuddhāya | namaḥ sarvabuddhabodhisattvebhyaḥ ||

"Bodhisattva-mahāsattvas love all beings in the world equally, as if each were their only child..." Buddhāvataṃsakamahāvaipulya Sūtra
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby max123 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:56 pm

Thanks for the replies,interesting....it still seems strange to me that the animal and human realm are so tangible but the others are not, why two of the six are so clearly perceived,maybe because we were technically an animal in our evolution so that makes one could argue one realm clearly visible....just pondering this question.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby porpoise » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:48 pm

max123 wrote:If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?


I think we only "see" the human realm.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby TaTa » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:47 pm

sukhamanveti wrote:
max123 wrote:If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?


Because ordinary consciousness has limits. Not everything is normally visible to ordinary beings. (Also, many of these unseen beings are usually located in other realms.) We've confirmed the existence of many things outside of the ordinary range of perception, such as the infrared and ultraviolet portions of the electromagnetic spectrum, radio waves, microwaves, etc. Physicist Michio Kaku has pointed out that any being that might exist in 10 dimensions would easily be able hide from our view (and perform seemingly "miraculous" feats). We can't currently, directly perceive dark matter, but can only infer its existence from its effects. However, the Buddha and many other past masters were able to see devas, pretas, asuras, narakas, and other non-human beings grouped with them.


Where can i see or read that quoate from michio kaku? Just curious =)
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby max123 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:12 pm

porpoise wrote:
max123 wrote:If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?


I think we only "see" the human realm.


And the animal?
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:55 pm

We don't see the animal realm, we just see animals from our point. You can't truly "see" a realm other the one you inhabit, even if you witness the beings or whatever. it's not a spatial environment, it's a process and a mode of existence, that's my understanding. Of course some argue that we are continually cycling through all of them to some degree, which makes some sense to me as well.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby sukhamanveti » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:00 pm

TaTa wrote:
sukhamanveti wrote:
max123 wrote:If the 6 realms exist not just a psychological states but as realms so to speak, why can we only see the human and animal realms,why can we only see 2 of the 6?


Because ordinary consciousness has limits. Not everything is normally visible to ordinary beings. (Also, many of these unseen beings are usually located in other realms.) We've confirmed the existence of many things outside of the ordinary range of perception, such as the infrared and ultraviolet portions of the electromagnetic spectrum, radio waves, microwaves, etc. Physicist Michio Kaku has pointed out that any being that might exist in 10 dimensions would easily be able hide from our view (and perform seemingly "miraculous" feats). We can't currently, directly perceive dark matter, but can only infer its existence from its effects. However, the Buddha and many other past masters were able to see devas, pretas, asuras, narakas, and other non-human beings grouped with them.


Where can i see or read that quoate from michio kaku? Just curious =)



I went back to the book where he first discusses this, Hyperspace (1994). It's in chapter 2 ("Mathematicians and Mystics") under a section titled "To Be a God." Here it turns out he says the "higher-dimensional" being would only have to exist in four spatial dimensions to "disappear or reappear at will," to "walk through walls," to see great distances and through obstacles, and to "reach into an object without opening it." He explains how this is possible with an analogy to interactions between three-dimensional and (fictional) two-dimensional beings. More recently, he mentioned this online in a discussion of the hypothetical 10 dimensions, so I forgot that only four were needed. Michio Kaku opens the reader's mind to many incredible possibilities. (Another excellent book of his is Physics of the Impossible.)
namo bhagavate śākyamunaye tathāgatāyārhate samyaksaṁbuddhāya | namaḥ sarvabuddhabodhisattvebhyaḥ ||

"Bodhisattva-mahāsattvas love all beings in the world equally, as if each were their only child..." Buddhāvataṃsakamahāvaipulya Sūtra
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby sukhamanveti » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:13 pm

max123 wrote:Thanks for the replies,interesting....it still seems strange to me that the animal and human realm are so tangible but the others are not, why two of the six are so clearly perceived,maybe because we were technically an animal in our evolution so that makes one could argue one realm clearly visible....just pondering this question.



Another way to look at it is that the visible universe is only a small fraction of the actual universe. Most planes of existence in traditional Buddhist cosmology are normally unseen. If most planes of existence are usually unseen, then it makes sense that many (or most ?) samsaric beings would also be unseen.
namo bhagavate śākyamunaye tathāgatāyārhate samyaksaṁbuddhāya | namaḥ sarvabuddhabodhisattvebhyaḥ ||

"Bodhisattva-mahāsattvas love all beings in the world equally, as if each were their only child..." Buddhāvataṃsakamahāvaipulya Sūtra
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby sukhamanveti » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:52 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:We don't see the animal realm, we just see animals from our point. You can't truly "see" a realm other the one you inhabit, even if you witness the beings or whatever. it's not a spatial environment, it's a process and a mode of existence, that's my understanding. Of course some argue that we are continually cycling through all of them to some degree, which makes some sense to me as well.


Yes, their perceptions of the world around them often differ, even when it's the same world. The common example in the texts is that of a deva, a preta, and a human looking at a container of liquid. The deva perceives celestial elixir. The human sees water. The preta sees pus. How one perceives the world depends on one's consciousness, conceptual imputation (as when one chooses to perceive an illness as a blessing), and one's karma.

On the other hand, spiritual adepts, such as arhats and advanced bodhisattvas, seem to be able to see other realms from the perspective of the beings inhabiting them, according to the sutras. Maudgalyayana could apparently see many different celestial realms as the devas saw them, for example.
namo bhagavate śākyamunaye tathāgatāyārhate samyaksaṁbuddhāya | namaḥ sarvabuddhabodhisattvebhyaḥ ||

"Bodhisattva-mahāsattvas love all beings in the world equally, as if each were their only child..." Buddhāvataṃsakamahāvaipulya Sūtra
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby porpoise » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:35 am

sukhamanveti wrote:Another way to look at it is that the visible universe is only a small fraction of the actual universe. Most planes of existence in traditional Buddhist cosmology are normally unseen. If most planes of existence are usually unseen, then it makes sense that many (or most ?) samsaric beings would also be unseen.


That's how I understand the traditional explanation. There are various planes of existence, most of which we don't normally see.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:30 am

One thing I always think about that resonates with this is that cats see fewer colors, I dunno...it fits somehow, especially with ideas like the 5 colors, adn the idea that different realms perceive things differently.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby futerko » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:52 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:One thing I always think about that resonates with this is that cats see fewer colors, I dunno...it fits somehow, especially with ideas like the 5 colors, adn the idea that different realms perceive things differently.


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Re: The 6 realms

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:14 am

How do you know that the human realm isn't just a psychological state?
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby porpoise » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:42 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:How do you know that the human realm isn't just a psychological state?


Unless one has developed higher states of consciousness and accessed other realms, then one doesn't know. But what exactly do you mean by "just a psychological state"?
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby porpoise » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:44 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:One thing I always think about that resonates with this is that cats see fewer colors, I dunno...it fits somehow, especially with ideas like the 5 colors, adn the idea that different realms perceive things differently.


Yes, and as humans we only directly percieve a small fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum. And modern physics has theorised about extra dimensions, and so on.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby dude » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:54 pm

When you win the lottery, you're in heaven.
When a loved one dies, you're in hell.
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Re: The 6 realms

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:58 pm

futerko wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:One thing I always think about that resonates with this is that cats see fewer colors, I dunno...it fits somehow, especially with ideas like the 5 colors, adn the idea that different realms perceive things differently.


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uh...Huh?
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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