Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Individual » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:53 am

Warning: This may offend some practitioners. Please be mindful of your speech. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BNSw-bfVqU

What do you think of this guy? Was it good or bad? Neither? Helpful or not? A lot of people could easily find good reason to see this man as a nutcase.

I heard elsewhere, by the way, that the scream isn't actually the monk screaming, but another student far across the room. The Zen monk was actually undisturbed. But off-camera two of his students broke their meditation to chase the man down, they were angry and confused, stole his air horn (second precept??), and told him to leave and never come back. If you look carefully, a lot of these people seem a bit old, so hopefully none of them had any cardiovascular problems that may have been aggravated by the incident. If you read the comments above, the guy said that he largely did this in order to impress a woman that he knew. That's kinda crazy, huh?

Anyway, after seeing the video of this guy, I was inspired to write this poem:

The crows caw,
The wind blows,
and the leaves rustle.
Shoes clap against the sidewalk,
The door opens and shuts.
The stairway creaks,
And sock-covered feet
Drag across the carpet.
The room is usually cold,
And yet they are peaceful.
But a monkey-man blows a horn,
And suddenly they are upset?
Is this meditation?

Hopefully, this guy won't go to hell, by the way. If that's the case, he may need lots of people to dedicate their merit to him.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Mr. G » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:19 am

So lame and childish. Why does he take it upon himself to think he's the one to judge a person's meditation practice? Ego problems indeed.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Ogyen » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:37 am

You know, initially, I just laughed. I didn't read the bits on the video on u-tube, so I even thought... I would not put it past a zen teacher to test his students and their patience, I could have even seen how a teacher could put a kid up to testing his/her students.

However, it was not. Interesting to note the kid did bow before entering the space, indicating he was a student.

I personally thought it was hilarious, but I can see how others might see it as an affront to their practice. Then again, I have a child that constantly interrupts everything I do, so perhaps I see this with different eyes than I would have before becoming a mom...?

:heart:
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Indrajala » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:38 am

We don't know what the reaction of the instructor was besides the villain being permanently banned.

My natural reaction would be to swear and curse and chase the asshole down and exercise skilful means.

But then I'm no master. :thumbsup:
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby plwk » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:02 am

http://www.abuddhistperspective.org/abu ... fects.html
It has been said that bodhisattvas fear causes while sentient beings fear effects.

May he be well and happy :buddha1:
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Tilopa » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:03 am

A disrespectful and extremely immature thing to do imho.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Hanzze » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:50 am

:rolling: we are serious practicer :rolling:
But much more mad is it to post and discuss it :rolling:
May I recall your seriousness again!! :rolling:
Just that! :-)
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Astus » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:30 pm

I think it's funny. No harm done. By the way, there's a Zen story similar to this (source).

Chin Ming-Hu was a powerful Chinese defense minister who lived toward the end of the Ming Dynasty. Although much of his life was devoted to military matters he also had a strong interest in Ch'an Buddhism. He would regularly invite Zen Master Hsin-Hueh Ta-Hsing to his place for dharma talks. One day when the Master was about to drink the usual cup of tea at the end of the talk there was suddenly a loud explosion. At the order of Chin a cannon had been fired at his signal to scare the Master. Many people were indeed frightened, but the Master continued to calmly drink his tea as if nothing had happened.

When he had finished his tea, the Master asked Chin, "That sounded like a cannon. Is there something wrong?" "I beg your pardon. I'm sure there is no problem." replied Chin evasively. "Cannon fire is such a routine occurrence in a military encampment that......."

After a while, a second round of tea was served. Just as Chin raised his cup to drink the Master gave a loud shout, creating quite a mess. Chin protested, "Master! Why did you do that?" Master Hsin-Hueh just laughed and said, "What's the matter? Don't you know that shouting is a routine occurrence in a Zen community?" Struck by the Master's calm and dignified manner, Chin offered his apology.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Indrajala » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:42 pm

I like that story Astus. :thumbsup:

In the Awakening of Faith it suggests that through samatha one comes to be entirely undisturbed by sudden noises.

This is interestingly true, but if you don't keep up meditation regularly it wears off, or such has been my experience.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby tamdrin » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:46 pm

It's said that disturbing someone's shamatha meditation leads to rebirth in hell believe it or not...
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Ogyen » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:54 pm

well, the kid was banned...

Sure, this might lead him to rebirth, but in the same lifetime, he could feel one real granule of true appreciation which would then redeem his consciousness from that hellish state.

In this sense, I think there is ample room for wiggle. Intention creates karma. But karma is not deterministic, so much as it is cumulative...
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Mr. G » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:16 am

As a side note he wrote this in his youtube comment:

I wanted to make people laugh, to show the people there that meditation is more than "just sitting," and there's this girl who thinks I'm a wimp and I wanted to show her my newfound fearlessness without causing myself serious injury or ending up in prison.


Honestly, I think his intention was to impress a girl. Though I think it's a bit sad that he thought his stunt would "impress the ladies". If that's the case, he might as well prepare himself for the life of a celibate monk. Ba-dum-Bump! Thanks ladies and gents, I'll be here all weekend! :popcorn: :lol:
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby shel » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:33 am

Individual wrote:Warning: This may offend some practitioners. Please be mindful of your speech. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BNSw-bfVqU

What do you think of this guy? Was it good or bad? Neither? Helpful or not? A lot of people could easily find good reason to see this man as a nutcase.

I heard elsewhere, by the way, that the scream isn't actually the monk screaming, but another student far across the room. The Zen monk was actually undisturbed. But off-camera two of his students broke their meditation to chase the man down, they were angry and confused, stole his air horn (second precept??), and told him to leave and never come back. If you look carefully, a lot of these people seem a bit old, so hopefully none of them had any cardiovascular problems that may have been aggravated by the incident. If you read the comments above, the guy said that he largely did this in order to impress a woman that he knew. That's kinda crazy, huh?

Anyway, after seeing the video of this guy, I was inspired to write this poem:

The crows caw,
The wind blows,
and the leaves rustle.
Shoes clap against the sidewalk,
The door opens and shuts.
The stairway creaks,
And sock-covered feet
Drag across the carpet.
The room is usually cold,
And yet they are peaceful.
But a monkey-man blows a horn,
And suddenly they are upset?
Is this meditation?

Hopefully, this guy won't go to hell, by the way. If that's the case, he may need lots of people to dedicate their merit to him.

How do you know what happened after the horn blast?
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Individual » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:54 am

shel wrote:
Individual wrote:Warning: This may offend some practitioners. Please be mindful of your speech. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BNSw-bfVqU

What do you think of this guy? Was it good or bad? Neither? Helpful or not? A lot of people could easily find good reason to see this man as a nutcase.

I heard elsewhere, by the way, that the scream isn't actually the monk screaming, but another student far across the room. The Zen monk was actually undisturbed. But off-camera two of his students broke their meditation to chase the man down, they were angry and confused, stole his air horn (second precept??), and told him to leave and never come back. If you look carefully, a lot of these people seem a bit old, so hopefully none of them had any cardiovascular problems that may have been aggravated by the incident. If you read the comments above, the guy said that he largely did this in order to impress a woman that he knew. That's kinda crazy, huh?

Anyway, after seeing the video of this guy, I was inspired to write this poem:

The crows caw,
The wind blows,
and the leaves rustle.
Shoes clap against the sidewalk,
The door opens and shuts.
The stairway creaks,
And sock-covered feet
Drag across the carpet.
The room is usually cold,
And yet they are peaceful.
But a monkey-man blows a horn,
And suddenly they are upset?
Is this meditation?

Hopefully, this guy won't go to hell, by the way. If that's the case, he may need lots of people to dedicate their merit to him.

How do you know what happened after the horn blast?

I saw it on Reddit. :)
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Mr. G » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:08 am

Individual wrote:I saw it on Reddit. :)


:lol: I don't deny I go there for my pop-culture and politics fix.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby shel » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:47 am

Individual wrote:
shel wrote:How do you know what happened after the horn blast?

I saw it on Reddit. :)

I see, well, maybe I asked the wrong question. I should have asked if you happen to live in Maryland. :jumping:
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Heruka » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:59 am

:rolling:


good time to watch nature of mind!


seriously though,

$5 for a heart attack victim is no joke!
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby spiritnoname » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:34 am

He was banned?!

Another reason for me to think Zen is for losers. Someone pulls a small prank like that and then ban? Because they were a little shocked,.. That's pathetic. Why don't they ban children who make noise and their family while they're at it?

<< sends the place a e-mail.

Hopefully they will come to the forum and explain why this person deserved to be banned.

You guys,.. people don't go to hell for pranks, more matters than just the object and the activity, the intention matters.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Tilopa » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:36 am

spiritnoname wrote:You guys,.. people don't go to hell for pranks, more matters than just the object and the activity, the intention matters.


Maybe it was his intention was to be disruptive and disrespectful. I don't think there's anything particularly meritorious in deliberately provoking anger in others no matter who they are.
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Re: Guy disturbs Zen monk's meditation (video)

Postby Indrajala » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:51 am

spiritnoname wrote:He was banned?!

Another reason for me to think Zen is for losers. Someone pulls a small prank like that and then ban? Because they were a little shocked,.. That's pathetic. Why don't they ban children who make noise and their family while they're at it?

<< sends the place a e-mail.

Hopefully they will come to the forum and explain why this person deserved to be banned.

You guys,.. people don't go to hell for pranks, more matters than just the object and the activity, the intention matters.



Well let's be honest for a lot of people compassion, tolerance and equanimity are given plenty of lip service, but when push comes to shove such ideas are tossed out the window and typical emotional reactions come to the fore.

You see this in temples and dharma centers all the time no matter the lineage. One might meditate regularly and talk about the joys of compassion and tolerance, but then turn around and gossip about other members while actively working against them.

I've seen people go into fits over little things like someone sitting in the "master's chair" in the tea room (even though he doesn't care about it). All the while they're talking about loving kindness, compassion, joy and equanimity.

One ironic thing is that in Zen and Chan traditions they like citing stories of old masters who did seemingly irrational things like burning Buddha statues as examples of how we shouldn't be attached to name and form. However, if someone nowadays did that they'd call the cops. On a lesser level just step out of line or break some petty rule and they'll be #$%#ing hell to pay. Discipline will probably be punitive and charged with emotion rather than hoping the rule breaker sees the error in their ways (that's of course assuming they actually intentionally did something with harmful intent).

Maybe that's just how the majority of humanity operates?

In this case with the prank if I was there I'd call him an ###hole and just leave it at that. No sense generating negative karma on your own part by hoping he suffers by dishing out punitive measures. If he proceeded to do this every week it'd be another issue, but what's wrong with just calling him a dumbass and leaving it at that if it was just once?
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