Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?
Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:10 pm

I'm bored idleness/inert/inactive observation
how to suffer people who are close to me.

It is said that when someone attains enlightenment
then appear mystical abilities.

Should not be to strive for the ability but only to enlightenment.
I do not care for enlightenment because
my enlightenment does not help anyone in anything
if we could
enlightenment of Sakyamuni would remove our suffering.

Sikyamuni get ilumination?Yes.
For this reason we are enlightenment?No.

My question is:
How to develop a healing abilities?
Here and now,no in the future in next live.
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:11 pm

oh so you are saying that because of Shakyamuni no one ever achieved enlightenment or liberation?
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:13 pm

if you are only thinking about this life, well maybe even if you become enlightened you cannot help anyone on this planet in this life. but after this life you will help all beings for all eternity. so still you say enlightenment doesnt help anyone in anything.

and your pursuit of enlightenment helps beings who you are interconnected to. maybe not directly, but defenitely indirectly. every good quality and wisdom and merit helps beings either directly or indirectly or both. nothing in the path of the truth goes to waste.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:33 pm

My point is:

many people attained enlightenment
but many more are still suffering


Even if all the people on earth have reached enlightenment
One patient remains ill

Enlightenment of millions will not affect on his health
but enough will be one healer
and patient do not need a millions enlightened.
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:38 pm

sentient beings are limitless so there will always be patients.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:03 pm

So?
Conclusion of this is simple
To help people in suffering
we need more healers not enlightened.
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:06 pm

you can cure an ill patient and he maybe happy for the lifetime, after he / she / it dies there is suffering and the illness was not really cured. only enlightenment cures the illness of samsara.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:50 pm

after he / she / it dies


But I/self does not exist :sage: :tongue:

After death we are not human beings
people need help when they live as humans.

Its hard to think about important things
when I miss something insignificant as a sandwich every morning.

There are more important things than some ridiculous sandwich
However, without sandwiches you die
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:52 pm

Snowid wrote:
after he / she / it dies


But I/self does not exist :sage: :tongue:

After death we are not human beings
people need help when they live as humans.

Its hard to think about important things
when I miss something insignificant as a sandwich every morning.

There are more important things than some ridiculous sandwich
However, without sandwiches you die



tell me if self or i doesnt exist, why do every single human being think themselves as being a self or an i.

of course they need help as human beings i dont want to argue with that. but to let go of the aspiration to be enlightened to benefit all beings and swap it into healing temporal illness of people is not in my opinion a good trade.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:15 pm

It was sarcasm / irony :tongue:

Anyway...maybe now I say something I should not say
When I asked a shamaness about cleaning my karma
she did it and I on the same day met a woman of which I've always dreamed
She is not similar to that of which I dreamed
she is EXACTLY the same.

prior to purification of karma,by year
I wondered what it's like to fall in love?
I thought it was just the kind of attachment
combined with sexual desire.

but
when I purify karma
on the same day I found out what it's like to be in love.

meaby I found real Dakini? :jumping:

Now it turns out that my woman from dreams
on whichI waited half my life immersed in depression and anxiety disorders
has serious health problems and I can only watch.
This really helping her,she dont need my knowledge about Atman or Anatman.
She dont care about "who experiences Bardo if I/sel did not exist".

She is still human and she need health here and now,becasue he has a 3 years old child.
Her child is also sick and cant read about Four Noble Truths.
(even though it knew how,It is a child and wants to have fun,no study dharma)

So...

I will very gladly resign from the enlightenment
if in exchange she will recover.
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby KonchokZoepa » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:29 pm

i think this is your attachment that brings up these disturbing thoughts and emotions. and not seeing what is the highest benefits for all sentient beings. not just your girlfriend. anyway, i hope your girlfriend finds the health treatment she needs to recover.

and of course she can participate on december if i remember right to Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's mandarava long life retreat over the internet and thus buy her sadhana and practice it. CNNR says that anyone who practice's mandarava long life practice will extend his/her life span at least by seven years.

meanwhile this is a medicine mantra for healing sickness and illness



and of course medicine buddha can also help.

all the best and blessings :anjali:

if you want more information on the retreat say so and i will provide you with the necessary information.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

Alfredo
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:52 am

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Alfredo » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:22 am

My question is:
How to develop a healing abilities?
Here and now,no in the future in next live.


Depending on your abilities, you could study to become a doctor, nurse, or EMT / paramedic. Or you could work for or support an organization dedicated to improving public health (sanitation, nutrition, access to drinking water, safe childbirth, etc.), e.g. in the Third World.
(no longer participating on this board)

greentara
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:03 am

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby greentara » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:53 am

Snowid, "many people attained enlightenment
but many more are still suffering
Even if all the people on earth have reached enlightenment
One patient remains ill
Enlightenment of millions will not affect his health"


I understand that there's enormous suffering in this world. Poverty,war,depression, angst and on and on it goes.

But where are all these people who have reached enlightenment? Enlightenment of millions?
It's not a cheap magic trick. Its vey rare and a great silent, radiating treasure for all living beings.

Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:20 am

In Buddhism and many other systems of Eastern philosophy
stresses the importance of living in the moment
not in the past
not in the future
only here and now,right?

But when Snovid write about mystical abilities
thanks to them You can help people here and now
it turns out future is more important
what happens after the death .


Enlightenment is important because in the future
after death
You'll be able to do more

What happened with here and now?
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English

oushi
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:18 am

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby oushi » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:20 am

Snowid wrote:How to develop a healing abilities?

By finish a medical school. Not as cool as healing hands, but very effective.
:coffee:
Say what you think about me here.

seeker242
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby seeker242 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:35 am

Snowid wrote:
Sikyamuni get ilumination?Yes.
For this reason we are enlightenment?No.

My question is:
How to develop a healing abilities?
Here and now,no in the future in next live.


I disagree that his enlightenment didn't heal people. Just his presence in the world and dharma teaching healed many people! And still continues to do so to this day. Those who currently practice it, are currently being healed by it. Simply because they are not completely healed yet, doesn't mean they aren't being healed. Enlightened people are the healers of the world. :smile:

:namaste:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!

invisiblediamond
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby invisiblediamond » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:35 pm

Snowid wrote:I'm bored idleness/inert/inactive observation
how to suffer people who are close to me.

It is said that when someone attains enlightenment
then appear mystical abilities.

Should not be to strive for the ability but only to enlightenment.
I do not care for enlightenment because
my enlightenment does not help anyone in anything
if we could
enlightenment of Sakyamuni would remove our suffering.

Sikyamuni get ilumination?Yes.
For this reason we are enlightenment?No.

My question is:
How to develop a healing abilities?
Here and now,no in the future in next live.


If you follow a master with a lineage you get all this.

yoga lion
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:05 am

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby yoga lion » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:28 pm

In the eye of an enlightened being, everything is fine. You see people are suffering. Its just their karma. It may be there for them to learn sth. If you don't choose to help, it will not make you less enlightened. If you choose to help, it will not make you more enlightened. There are suffering at different karmic levels, in general, physical, energy, mental levels. An enlightened person can help at the root level or the mental level. Mystical power can help the physical level or energy level. An enlightened being may not have mystical power, unless he choose to learn them.

With mystical power, you may help more people in some way. However, This could be dangerous as you could be playing with yours and their energy, you are not just dealing with the physical. Karma is a subtle energy, it's the tendency for sth to happen to you, or the tendency for you to do sth. When this tendency is removed by you by mystical means, and you are not totally balanced in your mental body and your energy body, it will be very likely that you incur their karma to yourself, as energy has to go somewhere, unless you are capable of dissolving them completely.

Does this sound contradicting with love and compassion? Love is the means to start something, it is not the end by itself. Compassion is the greatest love and the greatest motivation for achieving enlightenement. True compassion comes after enlightenment. It is impartial and spontaneous. When its needed, it will be manifested. In the infinite worlds of the universe, the sicks are also infinite. Its not anyone's job to take care of them.

Snovid
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:10 pm

Re: Enlightenment VS Mystical Abilities

Postby Snovid » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:07 am

It may be there for them to learn sth.


When I was healthier
I had the enthusiasm and appetite for everything,knowledge,practice etc
but disease and suffering teaches us many things
I also learned a lot:

-depression
-apathy(I do not care about practice)
-indifference(no matter what happens later)
-stagnation
-unconcern(I do not care for the realization)
-thinking only about how to get rid of own illness
instead of how to help others.
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


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