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Why one meal a day? - Page 13 - Dhamma Wheel

Why one meal a day?

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.
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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:52 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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manas
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby manas » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:19 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

jason c
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:06 am

hey cittasanto,
i did not say the remaining precepts are not relevant, i simply wish to explore them more deeply, if you feel they are just simply rules for monastics to follow then this is your understanding and this is good for you. following my own practice i have found these precepts to be very deep and there is more there than we originally percieve. as in our own meditation when we begin our minds are undiciplined and dull as we practice properly we become more diciplined and our minds become sharper, allowing us to penetrate deeper and uncovering insights we previously did not know existed. remember cittasanto there are many silent people lurking on this website who are to shy to take part, and our communication although beneficial to our own personal practice may be their only window into these teachings. if you wish to explain your answers in more detail it would be appreciated by me and by other members i'm sure. if not this is good too.

hey mike,
when i began practicing it was a very selfish thing to do, leaving my wife with the kids to go on a meditation retreat, leaving on sunday morning for a couple hours to go meditate at the temple. cutting my wife's conversations short in the evening because i had to do my evening sit. very selfish indeed. but my practice has taught me that initially one needs to be selfish, they need to take the time to cultivate this practice, but the practice all the time is teaching one to become selfless, to take less, to think of themselves less, to learn to live with less, and understand that this less is enough, less to think about, less to worry about. and eventually one naturally wants to help others to experience this. so to me, these precepts have much depth, they are the ocean of our practice. and if this is missing the point kindly explain.
also if a monastic leads this selfish lifestyle of hiding away and meditating, becomes enlightened and does not have any inclination to help others than they can keep this enlightenment. i want no part of it. the buddha after becoming enlightened spent the rest of his waking moments helping others, this is true enlightenment.

thanks,
jason

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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:44 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:32 pm

dear cittasanto,
lets say your a scientist, and you want to find a cure for cancer. but in your experiments you find a cure for heart disease. do you simply throw away this cure, as it was not what you were looking for?
for me its the same with a topic of discussion, if it leads to other things and we feel like exploring these things then this is good, if we go to far off topic than we should create a new topic.
as far as the topic of this discussion goes; i thank everyone for their input, i feel it has helped shed some light on this subject, and i have been given some different opinions to contemplate.
thanks everyone ,
jason

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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:49 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 am

Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:28 pm

cittasanto wrote,
only what is posted can be responded to,or should i.........?
i may have misinterpreted you. i thought you were saying we were going off topic.
i understand your views, and can see the benefit in following this noon eating rule.
i did ask some other questions.
what if a monk is lost while traveling from one forest monestary to another can he gather food and prepare food for himself?
what of the stories i read of nuns preparing and gathering wild roots and vegetables?
to understand that the body does not have to eat every day is valuable, to detach from food is valuable, this can be accomplished without this rule, these are selfish goals. to not be a bother to others and to arouse compassion in others are in my opinion noble acts and will lead to stream entry(through the gates of heaven) this is the goal. the buddhas teachings are meant to lead to this goal. the precepts are to cultivate right concentration (jhanic concentration) this is the concentration that will lead to stream entry and higher attainments. without proper morality you just have concentration and this alone will not take you to the final goal.
metta
jason

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hanzze_
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby hanzze_ » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:08 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:37 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

alan
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby alan » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Here's the answer to your question, jason:
As far as diet is concerned, you do not need to concern yourself with rules made for wandering monks 2500 years ago. They are no longer relevant.

jason c
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 pm

hey hanzze,
no it is not easily understandible, in fact it is impossible to understand, you must experience this state for yourself and in your own way. you are a combination of mind and matter(body) if you practice correctly you can learn to experience the body at the sub-atomic level (bhanga) the body will seem to dissapear and it will seem to evaporate into pure light. if the mind is pure enough, mind will seperate from body, (seperation of nama-rupa). at this point the sense of self,which is dependent on the body senses, evaporates and mind(pure awareness) is all that remains. there is no "I" to experience this realm of existance(which lies between samsara and nibbana) there is no-thing there but pure awareness. this i interpret as passing through the pearly gates(passing through the light of samsara into the dark no-thing ness of this realm) there is no time in this realm so the experience may appear to an onlooker as instantanious. when the experience is over the mind body connection is returned to normal, but the meditator has experienced death(this experience is what i call stream entry) the meditator is given fist hand knowledge of the non existent self. this knowledge changes their understanding of the teachings.
what lies beyond the pearly gates? heaven.
this is the truth as i have come to understand it, there is no doubt to me that this is the truth, you do not have to believe me, and if you disagree with me thats your choice, there is no need for me to argue with you, nor shall i.
it is my understanding that when the meditators knowledge of this experience has matured, he/she simply starts the process of meditation from the beginning working towards higher frutions.


hey cittasanto,

i can only draw conclusions from the information you provide.
i believe i understand your views, but this is impossible to really know.
you said there were ten reasons the rules could be layed down (i could not find these) and you have not provided them. so my question, i'll re-phrase it, should a lost monk simply die of starvation? still stands.
i read a book called, mae chee kaew, you will find all the stories in there.
can you elaborate on your confusions, i feel what i've written is comprehensible.

hey alan,
this is what i've been arguing to cittasanto . how is the practice of meditation benefitted from these ancient rules. my position is this rule is meant to arouse compassion in others. ie; laypersons supporting the monastics, they otherwise may not do charitable acts, it also gives the monastic an opporotunity to spread the dhamma.

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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:46 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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hanzze_
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby hanzze_ » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:45 am


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hanzze_
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby hanzze_ » Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:50 am


jason c
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:18 pm

hi cittasanto,
thanks for the detailed reply, i found this info very helpful. i have not studied the rules of mendicents in any great detail, so thanks for your tolerance. my concerns have only been focused on my own practice. i believe that as a layperson we can ex-spend much thought on issues concerning food, and the sooner we can come to peace with these issues, no thoughts on this matter will arise in our meditation, thus leading to better concentration, and deeper penetration of our meditation object.
in conclusion, if a layperson decides to follow this rule to enhance his practice go for it, if one is comfortable with their food intake on a day to day basis, and is not distracted by food in meditation then this precept is not necessary to follow to attain stream entry. also a mendicent simply following these rules without questioning their nature could be impeeding their progress on the path.

hey hanzze,

the heaven i am referring to is what i have come to understand as the christian heaven, very different from the buddhist heavenly realms. this misunderstanding is what i believe to be the cause of all the confusions amongst people of different religions(buddhists included). buddhist heavenly realms are within samsara there are 27 realms of existance that one could be reborn into, the fine material world(rupa-loka). there are four other realms, the immaterial world(arupa-loka). these four realms exist only as mind (this is the bardo of death, christian heaven)this is where an arahant or non-returner would go after death. the existance of this realm, but inability for all to experience it, is the cause of alot of the fighting between religions today.
but this is another topic.

metta ,
jason

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hanzze_
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby hanzze_ » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:17 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:10 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 am

Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:46 pm

hey cittisanto,
so as we progress on the path ridding ourselves of defilements by the accumulation of wisdom, one generally leans towards living a certain way.

hey hanzze,
i think we should start a new topic.

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Cittasanto
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Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:54 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

jason c
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 am

Re: what is the relevence of eating before noon?

Postby jason c » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:02 pm



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