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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:09 pm 
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my butt hurts from sitting too many hours on cross-legged position. do you have any experience of this and does it get better with more sitting or should i change my pillow into a professional meditation cushion? would that work ?

heh, thanks

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:40 pm 
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KonchokZoepa wrote:
my butt hurts from sitting too many hours on cross-legged position. do you have any experience of this and does it get better with more sitting or should i change my pillow into a professional meditation cushion? would that work ?

heh, thanks


I had that problem for a long long time. You can do sitting practice in any position, of course, like in a chair.
I never did like doing that, though, it didn't feel right. All I can say is keep trying, take breaks when the pain is too distracting, and above all strengthen your faith.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:50 pm 
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did it work out, does youre butt still hurt if you sit too much or does it go away with persistence and practice?

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Get yourself a proper cushion, and find a teacher to guide your posture, or you will damage your body.

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Say what you think about me here.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Yes, one showing is worth many describings.
You might think about alternating sitting and walking. Or sitting and exercise like Kum-Nye.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:07 pm 
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oushi wrote:
Get yourself a proper cushion, and find a teacher to guide your posture, or you will damage your body.



i doubt that you really need a teacher to guide your posture, i think the body can tell when it is natural position or if its hurting, sitting back straight and crosslegged where your legs dont hurt but your butt hurts is no indication that the posture is damaging.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am
Posts: 2552
I'll tell you a story for what its worth.
I had been sitting for a year or two and finding it hard on my back. I was at a day retreat with a certain Lama. He noticed something and stopped behind where I was sitting and put one hand on my shoulder and another on the small of my back and made an adjustment which I doubt I would have discovered by trial and error..it made a huge difference.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:17 pm 
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KonchokZoepa wrote:
oushi wrote:
Get yourself a proper cushion, and find a teacher to guide your posture, or you will damage your body.



i doubt that you really need a teacher to guide your posture, i think the body can tell when it is natural position or if its hurting, sitting back straight and crosslegged where your legs dont hurt but your butt hurts is no indication that the posture is damaging.

Yes, you will naturally settle into your... scoliosis. Especially when you sit for an extended period of time. Small things, like sitting in from of a computer with slightly outstretched arm (to reach the mouse) will make you "natural" position messed up without you noticing it. When you settle into this "natural" position later on, you will just make it worse, and worse, until it actually starts to hurt. Then you will have to see a doctor, not a teacher.
Don't get mad, I'm just sharing.

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Say what you think about me here.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:25 pm 
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oushi wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:
oushi wrote:
Get yourself a proper cushion, and find a teacher to guide your posture, or you will damage your body.



i doubt that you really need a teacher to guide your posture, i think the body can tell when it is natural position or if its hurting, sitting back straight and crosslegged where your legs dont hurt but your butt hurts is no indication that the posture is damaging.

Yes, you will naturally settle into your... scoliosis. Especially when you sit for an extended period of time. Small things, like sitting in from of a computer with slightly outstretched arm (to reach the mouse) will make you "natural" position messed up without you noticing it. When you settle into this "natural" position later on, you will just make it worse, and worse, until it actually starts to hurt. Then you will have to see a doctor, not a teacher.
Don't get mad, I'm just sharing.



none of my other body parts hurt other than my butt. i dont think i have scoliosis and sitting crosslegged spine straight hands in meditation mudra is quite natural position and cant be compared to '' hand reaching computer mouse'' i see it a bit out of context. also sitting back straight i dont think that that will create the causes or conditions for scoliosis. and if you have any proof that sitting in meditation posture leads to scoliosis show me the evidence and studies.
otherwise you just brought it completely out of context.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:33 pm 
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You've misunderstood. Body is not an auto-correcting mechanism, especially when you force it into position. If you sit in from of a computer a lot, or in any other fixed position, your natural position changes. This change is carried over to the cushion, and you deepen it through long sitting. It may not hurt today, but when it starts, you will have a big problem. Your position must be perfect to bring benefit and not harm. Since you cannot see yourself, you cannot fix your posture. Why do you see visiting a teacher, as a problem?
I will not give you any scientific proof, you can carry on in any position you wish.

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Say what you think about me here.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:01 pm 
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i see visiting a teacher a problem since the closest rinpoche lives in another city and ive never met him. i will have to wait until i get to Pa Auk monastery where im planning to go before next summer to receive instructions, and if they want to correct my meditation posture, i am happy to do that.

but i dont follow your logic, i think meditation in the natural ( right ) posture straightens the body from its un natural position from sitting on computer etc.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:22 pm 
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Standing practice like zhan zhaung, and/or some mobility -based exercise, kundalini yoga for example, done before or after.

Quote:
but i dont follow your logic, i think meditation in the natural ( right ) posture straightens the body from its un natural position from sitting on computer etc.



Well first, you can't know whether you even need correction without asking someone for it, secondly, even if your posture is perfect prolonged seated meditation is just hard on the body period, which is why I say, the only antidote i've ever found is exercise, especially those that promote mobility of the lower back and hips.

From a physical standpoint, there is nothing remotely "natural" about the posture either, natural for human beings is getting up, being busy, moving around.

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"We're chained to the world and we all gotta pull" -Tom Waits


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:19 pm 
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:good: :good:

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“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:37 pm 
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This is a tricky problem if you try to address it physically.
You could gain weight to get more cushioning on your butt, but then you won't be able to cross your legs.

If you are getting something like bed sores, you need to meditate a little less and walk around to get the blood flowing.

Besides that, focus on making the energies in the body pleasant and the pain go away. You'll know when you've done it because you'll feel light and the pain is gone.

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If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:59 pm 
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My zendo and I have found this book to be very beneficial:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Posture-Meditation-Will-Johnson/dp/1570622329

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The Great Way is not difficult
If only there is no picking or choosing
--- Xin Xin Ming

http://nondualism.org/


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Johnny Dangerous wrote:

From a physical standpoint, there is nothing remotely "natural" about the posture either, natural for human beings is getting up, being busy, moving around.


i agree to some level, but i disagree that meditation posture is not ''natural''. i strongly disagree. human body is made for meditation in my opinion.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Posts: 328
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
...Well first, you can't know whether you even need correction without asking someone for it, secondly, even if your posture is perfect prolonged seated meditation is just hard on the body period, which is why I say, the only antidote i've ever found is exercise, especially those that promote mobility of the lower back and hips….


This has been my experience, too. After much or before much sitting, some kind of yoga has always helped me along with making sure I take plenty of walks. It is also very helpful to have help in one's posture. Even if you surround yourself with mirrors it's hard to self-correct, especially when a subtle adjustment can make a world of difference.

One funny thing, at least to me, that I found out recently may be of help. Our center got a bunch of new, half-moon style zafus with buckwheat filling. I noticed that I was starting to have a -lot- of lower back pains and issues despite my usual antidotes. I changed my cushion to one filled with kapok (that cotton-like batting) and all the pains went away. This is probably some kind of princess-and-the-pea syndrome but at least now I know that I am apparently affected by what is in the cushions, how that settles into position over time, and how that makes me feel. So now I am able to practice better and not be so bothered by aches and pains.

Adi


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Milarepa's Final Teaching
Excerpt from Kalu Rinpoche's LUMINOUS MIND: THE WAY OF THE BUDDHA (1997):

One day, Milarepa warned Gampopa that the time had come for him to depart.

He told Gampopa, "You have received the entire transmission. I have given you all the teachings, as if pouring water from one vase into another. Only 1 pith instruction remains that I haven't taught you. It's very secret."

He then accompanied Gampopa to a river, where they were to part. Gampopa made prostrations to take his leave and started across. But Milarepa called him back: "You are a really good disciple. Anyway I will give you this last teaching."

Overjoyed, Gampopa prostrated 9 times, then waited for the instructions. Milarepa proceeded to turn around, pull up his robe, showing Gampopa his bottom. "Do you see?"

And Gampopa said, "Uh...yes..."

"Do you really see?"

Gampopa was not sure what he was supposed to see. Milarepa had calluses on his buttocks; they looked as though they were half flesh and half stone.

"You see, this is how I reached enlightenment: sitting and meditating. If you want to reach it in this life, make the same effort. This is my final teaching. I have nothing more to add."


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:36 pm 
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KonchokZoepa wrote:
i see visiting a teacher a problem since the closest rinpoche lives in another city and ive never met him. i will have to wait until i get to Pa Auk monastery where im planning to go before next summer to receive instructions, and if they want to correct my meditation posture, i am happy to do that.


You don't need a Rinpoche for this. A hatha yoga teacher can help you here. Or a chiropractor. Or a good friend who understands anatomy.

Quote:
but i dont follow your logic, i think meditation in the natural ( right ) posture straightens the body from its un natural position from sitting on computer etc.


I used to think so, but experience (hard experience, injury, &c) have taught me otherwise. Really, it's better to get the corrections you need in your posture BEFORE you reinforce those problems in your meditation. Even if it's just your bottom that's hurting (for now).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am 
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justsit wrote:
Milarepa's Final Teaching
Excerpt from Kalu Rinpoche's LUMINOUS MIND: THE WAY OF THE BUDDHA (1997):

One day, Milarepa warned Gampopa that the time had come for him to depart.

He told Gampopa, "You have received the entire transmission. I have given you all the teachings, as if pouring water from one vase into another. Only 1 pith instruction remains that I haven't taught you. It's very secret."

He then accompanied Gampopa to a river, where they were to part. Gampopa made prostrations to take his leave and started across. But Milarepa called him back: "You are a really good disciple. Anyway I will give you this last teaching."

Overjoyed, Gampopa prostrated 9 times, then waited for the instructions. Milarepa proceeded to turn around, pull up his robe, showing Gampopa his bottom. "Do you see?"

And Gampopa said, "Uh...yes..."

"Do you really see?"

Gampopa was not sure what he was supposed to see. Milarepa had calluses on his buttocks; they looked as though they were half flesh and half stone.

"You see, this is how I reached enlightenment: sitting and meditating. If you want to reach it in this life, make the same effort. This is my final teaching. I have nothing more to add."


:crying: Mila! (tears of joy)

_________________
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.


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