Mindstream and duality

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
Post Reply
User avatar
Sko
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:26 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD, United States

Mindstream and duality

Post by Sko »

Hey! I've been reading about stream of consciousness/mindstream and duality vs. nonduality and I have a question that isn't answered by the sources I've been reading. My question is: Does the concept of nonduality and mindstream imply an absolute, universal connectedness between all living creatures?
xabir
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:14 pm

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by xabir »

Sko wrote:Hey! I've been reading about stream of consciousness/mindstream and duality vs. nonduality and I have a question that isn't answered by the sources I've been reading. My question is: Does the concept of nonduality and mindstream imply an absolute, universal connectedness between all living creatures?
First of all, there are many different understandings of non-duality.

What do you mean by non-duality? Do you mean no subject-object duality? Do you mean no existence/non-existence duality?

Secondly, no Buddhist teachings accept an overarching, universal consciousness, that would be a Hindu teaching. Consciousness is always unique and perculiar to the individual's mindstream, conventionally speaking.

All mindstreams, the whole universe, are seamlessly interdependent like the net of indra*. However interdependence/interconnectedness does not imply a universal consciousness or soul.

*See: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com. ... indra.html
The very pulsing of dependent origination
Is the primordial face of the Tathāgata.
Like blood and veins and heart
- The two truths meet everywhere.

- André A. Pais
hop.pala
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 3:48 am

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by hop.pala »

Sko wrote:Hey! I've been reading about stream of consciousness/mindstream and duality vs. nonduality and I have a question that isn't answered by the sources I've been reading. My question is: Does the concept of nonduality and mindstream imply an absolute, universal connectedness between all living creatures?
Yes, the unenlightened realize it too as karma,obviously not in detail but in" trends".
Punya
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by Punya »

Xabir : Consciousness is always unique and perculiar to the individual's mindstream, conventionally speaking.

This is something I have been pondering. Could someone explain a bit further about how this works and/or suggest links to detailed explanations.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
User avatar
flowerbudh
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: earth

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by flowerbudh »

I've been pondering this question a lot, too, and while I can't say I have the "right" answer (I don't know if there even is one, to be honest,) I have come to a few conclusions that seem to make sense. Ultimately, everything co-exists. So duality cannot exist without unity and vice versa. For example, If we accept the current scientific theory of how the Universe was created, aka the Big Bang, then "everything" (these are not necessarily absolute terms) literally came out of "nothing". From a single concentrated point in space, all that constitutes the cosmos flew out into being. Can you see how coexistence applies here with the seemingly separate (but not realistically so) ideas of "one" and "all"? Now to more directly address your question, the mind-stream is both individualized & localized while also being non-individualized & non-localized. It fits in with the five aggregates: material form, feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness. We all share these things, but have different "kinds" of each. So, we all have material bodies which are composed of the same elements, and yet they look different. We all have feelings, perceptions, and thoughts, and yet they are unique to each of us for many different reasons, the main one being we are different people with different life experiences (on a conventional level). Each of these five aggregates is inherent to this realm of samsara, and as such are impermanent. Because our consciousness is constantly in flux, it cannot be said that there is one, pervasive consciousness amongst everything because that would suggest no change and no difference in conscious states. Because there is no self, when you die "your" consciousness is not reborn, just as "your" body, feelings, perceptions, and thoughts are not reborn (at least holistically, but that's worthy of another posting) but consciousness (and each of the other aggregates) in and of itself is. I really hope this makes sense, hehe.
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - The Buddha
User avatar
lobster
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by lobster »

I would go with karma or ripples in a web of samsara.

What you are really getting at is the existence of 'spooky stuff'?

No need for that, we are reflections in a hall of mirrors
or mirrors in a whole reflection.

Just words from the beginning of silence . . .
User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 5408
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by LastLegend »

Sko wrote:Hey! I've been reading about stream of consciousness/mindstream and duality vs. nonduality and I have a question that isn't answered by the sources I've been reading. My question is: Does the concept of nonduality and mindstream imply an absolute, universal connectedness between all living creatures?
The connection is we are here together. But to make a concept of anything is not absolute because how can a concept be absolute? So there is no absolute of anything...but the mind is beyond words and is what in "front" of us everyday. We can say mind is the connection. But mind is not a concept, imagination is no good.
It’s eye blinking.
User avatar
oushi
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by oushi »

All living creatures arise in the mind. All connection arise in the mind. In one mind, so no duality. Like waves on the ocean.
Say what you think about me here.
Simon E.
Posts: 7652
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by Simon E. »

A very neat summation.....of the Vedantic position.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
User avatar
oushi
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by oushi »

You failed once more.
Padmasambhava wrote:appearances arise from the mind; they arise from the mind and are liberated into the mind.
Know this guy?
Say what you think about me here.
Jesse
Posts: 2127
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 6:54 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by Jesse »

I think it depends how you think about it, since we are all essential empty, we could be said to be made up of the same 'stuff'. Nothing particularly exists, yet the world is filled with illusions, and these illusions have one thing in common....

the fact that they originated in emptiness no?

So even the notion of separateness, or oneness is just an idea. But on the experiential level I think many people find we are not as 'separate' as we may seem at times.

Here is also an interesting read, that might tie into your original question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatamsaka_Sutra
Image
Thus shall ye think of all this fleeting world:
A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream;
A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.
greentara
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 am

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by greentara »

Oushi, 'All living creatures arise in the mind. All connection arise in the mind. In one mind, so no duality. Like waves on the ocean" Sounds good to me.
In addition I'd say we have no individual, separate consciousness....it's possible that we are all within consciousness itself.
User avatar
oushi
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:18 am

Re: Mindstream and duality

Post by oushi »

greentara wrote:Oushi, 'All living creatures arise in the mind. All connection arise in the mind. In one mind, so no duality. Like waves on the ocean" Sounds good to me.
In addition I'd say we have no individual, separate consciousness....it's possible that we are all within consciousness itself.
We/Self/I arises in the same way, from the mind, and into the mind. Still, mind is nothing fixed, just a label.
Say what you think about me here.
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”