Why is there no common Dha*ma Wheel forum?

[Tatsuo]

Why are there two associated Dhamma/Dharma Wheel forums and not one for Theravadins, Mahayanins and Vajrayanins like E-sangha was. I don't think, that E-Sangha will ever be online again, and with this forum we have the opportunity to build a second E-Sangha, but only if there would be a common Buddhist forum and not two forums.

[plwk]

Try here & here

[Tatsuo]

Hmm that's a shame, but thank you for the links plwk.

[Will]

There may come a time (distant future I think) when there are "common" Buddhists & "common" Buddhist temples. But until that time differing lineages and points of focus on Buddha's teachings are fine.

After all, just clicking between two sites in your Favorites list is not too tough, is it? Plus, many of us are at both sites. That is a good exercise for us in tact & one learns what are teachings shared and what are not.

[Ngawang Drolma]

David Snyder made both forums, and it was his vision to have peaceful places for people to discuss their traditions with sectarian bickering. So far it's worked really well!

Best,
Laura

[Tatsuo]

I guess you're both right, Will and Laura... Maybe having two forums is the best option for now. I asked, because one common forum would make it easier to communicate, but on the other hand it really is not too difficult to create another account on dhammawheel.

[Luke]

There are rumors brewing about an inter-Dha*ma wheel chat, though:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6032

Anyway, I'm grateful for both Dha*ma Wheel sites as they are in their current forms. They almost are like one site already because there is such an overlap in members and moderators and in their general vision. If keeping the two forums technically separate makes it easier for Mr. Snyder and company to manage them, then I say let them do it that way.

Both forums have pretty general areas where you can ask pretty much any reasonable question about the sites' traditions that you want. Nobody complains if you want to compare Theravada to Mahayana or Vajrayana if you do it in the appropriate sections and do it in a respectful way. So I don't feel that there are any heavy restrictions in place.

I think it's more like a business deciding that it's more convenient to have two medium-sized office buildings instead of one huge one. The people in both buildings can still have meetings together and call each other easily enough.

[Individual]

David Snyder made both forums, and it was his vision to have peaceful places for people to discuss their traditions with sectarian bickering. So far it's worked really well!

Best,
Laura

If it isn't broke, don't mess with it.

[Ngawang Drolma]

There are rumors brewing about an inter-Dha*ma wheel chat, though:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6032

Anyway, I'm grateful for both Dha*ma Wheel sites as they are in their current forms. They almost are like one site already because there is such an overlap in members and moderators and in their general vision. If keeping the two forums technically separate makes it easier for Mr. Snyder and company to manage them, then I say let them do it that way.

Both forums have pretty general areas where you can ask pretty much any reasonable question about the sites' traditions that you want. Nobody complains if you want to compare Theravada to Mahayana or Vajrayana if you do it in the appropriate sections and do it in a respectful way. So I don't feel that there are any heavy restrictions in place.

I think it's more like a business deciding that it's more convenient to have two medium-sized office buildings instead of one huge one. The people in both buildings can still have meetings together and call each other easily enough.

Luke, very cool!

[Tatsuo]

I like the idea of two different (associated) forums and a common chat room. Hopefully this chat room will be established in the future

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I like the idea of two different (associated) forums and a common chat room. Hopefully this chat room will be established in the future

If we can overcome the technical hurdles we will.

As for the two separate forums, I think the above explanations provide a good assessment of the situation. The only thing I'd add is that different online communities have different requirements, and it's important that those people who moderate and administer the forums are in tune with these requirements. If a moderator or administrator is perceived as being an 'outsider' from the very community they oversee, there is the arising of unnecessary tensions, conflict and passive-aggressive behaviours.

I hope you enjoy the forum(s)!

Metta,
Retro.

[catmoon]

Why are there two associated Dhamma/Dharma Wheel forums ...

I think you are seeing religious evolution in action. Various boards have differing characteristics that affect their ability to survive. The Pan-Buddhist boards keep popping up but they tend not to function well, because it just takes a handful of dogmatic sectarians to tear one apart, or start so many fights that the moderators burn out.


All it takes to start a sect fight is for one user to have a really bad day, sign on in an angry mood, and post a single nasty rant. This begins an avalanche effect in which those who feel mostly strongly on the topic join the fight first, then those who feel not so strongly are provoked by the inflammatory rhetoric and THEY join the fight, which then exceeds the patience of more users, which leads to more rhetoric and so on until either the whole board lights up in flames or the moderators kill the discussion.

So there are really three factors that affect the chances of flame wars.

1. Loose moderation

2. Sheer size of the board

3. The presence of many factions with many different views.

So a small board, confined to a single sect, and tightly moderated is long lived and stable.

A large loosely moderated board accomodating many factions is extremely unstable.

[retrofuturist]

Nice Internet-Sociology there Catmoon!



Metta,
Retro.

[Mr. G]

Why are there two associated Dhamma/Dharma Wheel forums ...

I think you are seeing religious evolution in action. Various boards have differing characteristics that affect their ability to survive. The Pan-Buddhist boards keep popping up but they tend not to function well, because it just takes a handful of dogmatic sectarians to tear one apart, or start so many fights that the moderators burn out.


All it takes to start a sect fight is for one user to have a really bad day, sign on in an angry mood, and post a single nasty rant. This begins an avalanche effect in which those who feel mostly strongly on the topic join the fight first, then those who feel not so strongly are provoked by the inflammatory rhetoric and THEY join the fight, which then exceeds the patience of more users, which leads to more rhetoric and so on until either the whole board lights up in flames or the moderators kill the discussion.

So there are really three factors that affect the chances of flame wars.

1. Loose moderation

2. Sheer size of the board

3. The presence of many factions with many different views.

So a small board, confined to a single sect, and tightly moderated is long lived and stable.

A large loosely moderated board accomodating many factions is extremely unstable.

Brilliant!

[Hanzze]

Thanks to the maker and also for the moderators!!
As Will said, when the times is right borders will fall. Its a generation of change

[plwk]

Why are there two associated Dhamma/Dharma Wheel forums ...

I think you are seeing religious evolution in action. Various boards have differing characteristics that affect their ability to survive. The Pan-Buddhist boards keep popping up but they tend not to function well, because it just takes a handful of dogmatic sectarians to tear one apart, or start so many fights that the moderators burn out.


All it takes to start a sect fight is for one user to have a really bad day, sign on in an angry mood, and post a single nasty rant. This begins an avalanche effect in which those who feel mostly strongly on the topic join the fight first, then those who feel not so strongly are provoked by the inflammatory rhetoric and THEY join the fight, which then exceeds the patience of more users, which leads to more rhetoric and so on until either the whole board lights up in flames or the moderators kill the discussion.

So there are really three factors that affect the chances of flame wars.

1. Loose moderation

2. Sheer size of the board

3. The presence of many factions with many different views.

So a small board, confined to a single sect, and tightly moderated is long lived and stable.

A large loosely moderated board accomodating many factions is extremely unstable.

[Luke]

So a small board, confined to a single sect, and tightly moderated is long lived and stable.

Perhaps, but if a forum is too tightly moderated, then it may be stable due to many people leaving, instead of being stable due to having lots of polite and happy members who don't cause trouble.

I don't think I would say that the Dha*ma Wheel boards are tightly moderated. I don't feel repressed in any way here. I think the moderation is just right.

[catmoon]

I don't think I would say we are tightly moderated here either, more in the medium range. Free Sangha runs a bit looser and the old BuddhaChat had no effective moderation at all. Needless to say it blew sky high on an almost continuous basis - one fight was hardly over before the next one started.

The tightest board moderation I have seen yet is over at the KGS go server, in the English Game Room. One slightly off colour joke, any hint of religious or political argument and BOOM you have a 24 hour suspension, usually well within 5 minutes of the offence. Quite often I have seen people suspended just seconds after an infraction, no debate, no appeal, cya tomorrow bud.
It's a very polite forum. Oddly there have been few if any complaints about the moderation, not even from the boot-ees.

[Ngawang Drolma]

I don't think I would say that the Dha*ma Wheel boards are tightly moderated. I don't feel repressed in any way here. I think the moderation is just right.

Thanks Luke
And I like catmoon's assessment a lot.

Best,
Laura

[Luke]

I don't think I would say we are tightly moderated here either, more in the medium range.

I do think that Dhamma Wheel is a bit more tightly moderated than Dharma Wheel is, but that's understandable, since Dhamma Wheel has almost five times the number of members that we have here. I imagine that it's much harder to be a moderator on a large forum, so I feel compassion for the moderators.

An average day for a Dharma Wheel moderator:
"Whoa there! Easy, big fella. Easy..."


An average day for a Dhamma Wheel moderator:
"Move it out!"