Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Forum for discussion of East Asian Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
rory
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:08 am
Location: SouthEast USA

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby rory » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:16 am

Pork Chop; I suggest you read some scholarly works about Genshin, not take your info from Pure Land sectarian sites: you really are well not informed about the topic. You even can read snippets over at Google Books

"The Strong and the Weak in Japanese Literature" Fuminobu Murakami

"Elsewhere in Essentials of Rebirth Genshin states that the nembutsu alone cannot guarantee rebirth in the Pure Land. He says: "It is impossible to catch a fowl using a net consisting of just one mesh (likewise it is only by) employing myriad techniques to aid in the nembutsu contemplation that the great matter of rebirth is accomplished." p. 15

"Jokei and Buddhist Devotion in Early Medieval Japan" James L. Ford

"For example the Avatamsaka Sutra distinguishes for different types of nenbutsu practices, including vocal invocation of the Buddha's name, contemplation of the Buddha's image and realm, contemplation of the characteristics of the Buddha and/or realm, and, finally contemplation of suchness... Contemplative nembutsu practices were generally perceived to be for more advanced practitioners and vocal nembutsu for beginning practitioners. The hierarchy in the Kegon classification above is readily evident. The stages of practice, from easiest to most difficult, are implicit, if not explicit, in the teachings of both the Chinese Pure Land masters and the early Japanese Pure Land masters, such as Genshin, author of Ojoyoshu." p. 115

gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

Matylda
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Matylda » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:59 am

Dear Rory,

I sympathize with you, and I agree with what you have written... but...
I understand that you practiced jodo shin in America or somewhere... was there any myokonin? or any other deeply experienced person? I am not sure... I think that the level of teaching and practice might be determined by the history of shinshu outside of Japan.. basically missionaries were sent to serve Japanese folk, parishioners who were emigrants. I do not think that jodo shin scholarship or other high level features od the school followed those in need of religious service.

Moreover I can say that all Japanese schools which sent their missionaries to Japanese emigrants represented just basic level of priestly services... on the top of it, even those parishioners were not at all interested in an spiritual pursuit. It would rather annoy them, it is natural. Finallythis situation had to imprint its influence on the level of teachings and practice.

And it is problem, or rather situation with all buddhist schools. I have a friend, Chinese monk from Singapor.. he is an abbot and has nice temple frequanted by many lay buddhists... and he is very interested in zen practice... so has some place for zazen on the temple grounds and zazen group. So his temple has hundreds if not thousands of visitors, but for zazen he has very small group, and generally all memebers of his temple are not interested in any spiritual practice... so generally I think that in all established schools one has to do some little effort to find right people to practice with.. but it is problem with people not with practice and dharma. If you look at Japan I thin most people are exactly same. They are mostly interested in temple services, not in practice or even teachings. But there is important minority, genuine dharma practitioners, and even myokonin.. those are jewels. So look for jewels not for sand. Sorry if those words are too bold, I do not mean to offend you :)

User avatar
Admin_PC
Site Admin
Posts: 3741
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Admin_PC » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:34 am


User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:44 am

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Indrajala » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:42 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:52 am

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:35 pm


User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Indrajala » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:02 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:45 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:46 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:50 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby Indrajala » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:50 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:59 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:52 am

Re: What has Chinese Buddhism lost?

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:06 pm


User avatar
Indrajala
Posts: 6312
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby Indrajala » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:08 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:24 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:52 am

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:47 pm


User avatar
Dodatsu
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm
Location: Kyoto, Japan

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby Dodatsu » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:56 pm

Contemplating the power of Tathagata's Primal Vow,
One sees that no foolish being who encounters it passes by in vain.
When a person single-heartedly practices the saying of the Name alone,
It brings quickly to fullness and perfection [in that person] the great treasure ocean of true and real virtues.
- Shinran Shonin

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:52 am

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:17 pm


User avatar
futerko
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby futerko » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:47 pm


User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:52 am

Re: Provenance of Pure Land Practice

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:55 pm



Return to “East Asian Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest