Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

[Ngawang Drolma]

Drolma,

What a gem you've found. Thanks a lot

Best,
Laura

[David N. Snyder]

Thanks Drolma for that link.

I have an account at Wikipedia, so I have already updated the page on Tenzin Ösel Rinpoche:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzin_%C3%96sel_Rinpoche

Hopefully no one will change my edits, but I included the important information from the FPMT response and a reference link to this article.

Otherwise there is always my own page about him at my Dhamma Wiki encyclopedia:

http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=T ... l_Rinpoche

[Ngawang Drolma]

Wonderful TheDhamma, thanks for showing us.

Best,
Laura

[Drolma]

Thanks Drolma for that link.

I have an account at Wikipedia, so I have already updated the page on Tenzin Ösel Rinpoche:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzin_%C3%96sel_Rinpoche

Hopefully no one will change my edits, but I included the important information from the FPMT response and a reference link to this article.

Otherwise there is always my own page about him at my Dhamma Wiki encyclopedia:

http://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=T ... l_Rinpoche

Good work TheDhamma, thanks for trying to keep the info at Wikipedia, accurate. It is great for some basic info, but not entirely reliable and is not accepted as a credible source by schools and universities in the USA so I always like to double check the info I find there, just incase.

FPMT Letter from Osel, signed BIG LOVE

http://www.fpmt.org/Teachers/Osel/

[Eternal Spirit]

Am I allowed to say that Jimmy Hendrix hurts my ears?

Dear Ngawang Drolma

I faithfully posted links for you where Jimi Hendrix would not hurt your ears. But instead, you were too busy persecuting the Eternal Spirit. The Buddha said:

98. Inspiring, indeed, is that place where Arahants dwell, be it a village, a forest, a vale, or a hill.

However, having had taken refuge with the Great Mahayana, expecting boundless Bodhisatvas, the Eternal Spirit has found intolerance & persecution, mere fundamentalist "Buddhists" weighed down with attachment, not tasting the flavour of the soup.

As such, given there is no luminous & boundless mind with Eternal Spirit, I bid you farewell and request my account be deleted.

For you, the Eternal Spirit Farewell Song. Just a moment on the wind and another women will give birth to me.

Hurrah i awake from yesterday
Alive but the war is here to stay
So my love catherina and me
Decide to take our last walk
Through the noise to the sea
Not to die but to be re-born
Away from a life so battered and torn....
Forever...

Oh say can you see its really such a mess
Every inch of earth is a fighting nest
Giant pencil and lip-stick tube shaped things
Continue to rain and cause screaming pain
And the arctic stains
From silver blue to bloody red
As our feet find the sand
And the sea is strait ahead..
Strait ahead.....

Well its too bad
That our friends
Cant be with us today
Well thats too bad

"The machine
That we built
Would never save us"
That's what they say
(That's why they aint coming with us today)

And they also said
"It's impossible for man
To live and breath underwater..
Forever" was their main complaint
(Yeah)

And they also threw this in my face:
They said
Anyway
You know good well
It would be beyond the will of God
And the grade of the King
(Grace of the King yeah yeah)

So my darling and I
Make love in the sand
To salute the last moment
Ever on dry land
Our machine has done its work
Played its part well
Without a scratch on our bodies
And we bid it farewell

Starfish and giant foams
Greet us with a smile
Before our heads go under
We take a last look
At the killing noise
Of the out of style...
The out of style, out of style

1983... (A Merman I Should Turn To Be) Lyrics

Rare acoustic version

Raga Krishna Version

[Ngawang Drolma]

As you wish, Eternal Spirit.

Best,
Laura

[Dazzle]

.

Farewell until we meet again, Eternal Spirit.







Dazzle

[Ngawang Drolma]

I faithfully posted links for you where Jimi Hendrix would not hurt your ears. But instead, you were too busy persecuting the Eternal Spirit.

I can't bring myself to edit this due to the silly-factor. I'm a sucker for silliness.

[Heruka]

expecting boundless Bodhisatvas, the Eternal Spirit has found intolerance & persecution, mere fundamentalist "Buddhists" weighed down with attachment, not tasting the flavour of the soup.

As such, given there is no luminous & boundless mind with Eternal Spirit, I bid you farewell and request my account be deleted.

I agree with you on a few points. All to often people start to feel special and attached to ("their"??) schools. It is a limitation for sure. A condition of making samsara nicer for themselves. I think thats common enough to been seen quite clearly, so no mystery there. We are all a work in progress. Now we come to the tale tale signs of glitches and conceit that creeps into ones practice, and what I call the vague and mysterious or "magical" practitioner phenomena. They talk in riddles, are vague, aloof, non committal when pressed for an answer, invoke the inner mysteries of the cosmos and waffle on and on about its all in the mind and so forth, its all your own karma and so on. So we steer clear of those types, for they really cannot help us with any clarity at all. They also subtley gloat about their teachers fame and so on, hoping that people will become impressed with them as a student, really I have seen it too much for it to be just one or two students. A teacher once said that some people say the mind is like the sky, this is just oneside of the picture, the sky being empty, is just empty. But mind is also aware, which is never empty.

Bodhisattvas are not limited by schools and just being buddhist. the Buddha didn't teach about schools at all, that is a later invention. A bodhisattvas hand is always open for all, not just for a few special ones. If you quit it is because you feel people are not taking you seriously. I take you seriously, so there is at least one who does.


Now on to this tulku business. This Osel young man with all his moods and joys and daily goings on, his fascination with art and so forth. Vajrayana practitioner doesn't renounce anything. That is a hinayana sutra way. Again the sky being empty, awareness which is not. The totality of that is not rejected. We can say Osel is not doing his formal duties of a tulku within the limits of the school or tradition therefore he is not a tulku at all. Or we can see it as a young man doing exactly what needs to be experienced in his own way. Either way should we not just wish him the best, and not put him in some straight jacket of moral obligations, to feed our fantasies insecurities and limitations? Are the three kayas also present in whatever he is up to?

[Luke]

I agree with you on a few points. All to often people start to feel special and attached to ("their"??) schools. It is a limitation for sure. A condition of making samsara nicer for themselves.

But what is the alternative? Having no school? Having no teacher? Or declaring that "all is one" and having so many schools and teachers that one never completes the path of any traditional Buddhist school?

Buddhas invented the methods of the traditional Buddhist schools. When we try to create our own methods and paths, we run the risk of going astray.

I cling to my school because its methods have worked for hundreds of years and I can benefit from them.

I wish everyone success with the methods of their Buddhist traditions.

[Drolma]

I cling to my school because its methods have worked for hundreds of years and I can benefit from them.

I wish everyone success with the methods of their Buddhist traditions.

If I may, I don't see you clinging to your school, Luke. If you did you would not wish everyone success with the traditions of their choice, you would insist that your school was the one, the best, the only, and then generally just go around annoying people and making a nuisance of yourself. Seriously, that is attachment, that is clinging. I have not seen you doing that. Without attachment and clinging one is able to embrace one school of thought, and celebrate them all.

[Luke]

If I may, I don't see you clinging to your school, Luke. If you did you would not wish everyone success with the traditions of their choice, you would insist that your school was the one, the best, the only, and then generally just go around annoying people and making a nuisance of yourself. Seriously, that is attachment, that is clinging. I have not seen you doing that. Without attachment and clinging one is able to embrace one school of thought, and celebrate them all.

Wow. Is there ever a day when I don't feel like hugging you? Perhaps hugging kind-hearted, Buddhist women is what I'm really attached to.

But seriously, I guess that all Buddhists who are not Buddhas are technically attached to spritual practice and positive emotions. Only Buddhas attain the non-meditation stage of Mahamudra and don't have to do formal meditation anymore and aren't attached to any concept whatsoever and see every concept and appearance as being empty. But the rest of us can't just skip to such a lofty viewpoint.

[Drolma]

If I may, I don't see you clinging to your school, Luke. If you did you would not wish everyone success with the traditions of their choice, you would insist that your school was the one, the best, the only, and then generally just go around annoying people and making a nuisance of yourself. Seriously, that is attachment, that is clinging. I have not seen you doing that. Without attachment and clinging one is able to embrace one school of thought, and celebrate them all.

Wow. Is there ever a day when I don't feel like hugging you? Perhaps hugging kind-hearted, Buddhist women is what I'm really attached to.

But seriously, I guess that all Buddhists who are not Buddhas are technically attached to spritual practice and positive emotions. Only Buddhas attain the non-meditation stage of Mahamudra and don't have to do formal meditation anymore and aren't attached to any concept whatsoever and see every concept and appearance as being empty. But the rest of us can't just skip to such a lofty viewpoint.

Attachment does not manifest all of the time, it is a mental affliction, based on ignorance. Where there is attachment - there is aversion. Aversion is what happens when attachment does not get what it wants.
Of course there is still the seed of attachment in the mind, or potential for attachment in the mind of ordinary dharma practitioners . But the teachings offer various antidotes for attachment, teachings on how to work with it when it arises in the mind, so practicing without attachment is not a lofty idea, it is just a practice, nothing more nothing less.
When we practice and make use of the tools and antidotes that work best for us, we don’t assume that because we are not following attachment blindly, that we are now liberated, but we also don’t blindly believe everything we think like we used to, either.
We are creating the causes for liberation. Liberation does not happen out of the blue for no rhyme or reason without causes and conditions, gradually we get to that point, but before we do - slowly we realize, you hear teachings, you contemplate, you meditate on them and you are cutting through the afflictions.

If there is attachment going on, there will be aversion. Aversion is what happens when attachment does not get what it wants. Where there is attachment there is intolerance, there is hatred, there is my way or the highway.
Nothing wrong with thinking that the teachings that you embrace are the best teachings in the world, of course they are- for you! - That is not attachment. Thinking that the teachings that you follow are best for everyone, and that all other schools of buddhism are wrong, stupid and useless, is.

[Ngawang Drolma]

I would just like to let it be known that I know Eternal Spirit, and there was no real persecution occurring.
We're trying to make sure Dharma Wheel is persecution-free. If his goofing around caused anyone to feel disturbed, I apologize.

Thanks,
Laura

[Luke]

Drolma,

I want to discuss this some more, but I realize that we're veering off topic, so I created a new thread here to respond to you:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=271

[Luke]

Dear Ngawang Drolma
The Buddha said:

98. Inspiring, indeed, is that place where Arahants dwell, be it a village, a forest, a vale, or a hill.

However, having had taken refuge with the Great Mahayana, expecting boundless Bodhisatvas, the Eternal Spirit has found intolerance & persecution, mere fundamentalist "Buddhists" weighed down with attachment, not tasting the flavour of the soup.

As such, given there is no luminous & boundless mind with Eternal Spirit, I bid you farewell and request my account be deleted.

Dear Eternal Spirit,

I'm sorry that you didn't find what you were looking for here. This website is very new and there are only a few people (and therefore only a few viewpoints) represented here. You could try some of the larger Buddhist and Hindu websites where you might people who are more receptive to your integrative ideas.

You kept using the non-Buddhist term "Eternal Spirit" and never really defined it in Buddhist terms, so we never really knew what to think. If you had identified it with the dharmakaya or rigpa or something like that, it would have made a lot more sense to us.

Just a moment on the wind and another women will give birth to me.

I hope you're just speaking metaphorically. I hope to God that this doesn't mean you're committing suicide!

If so, please don't do it! Turn away from that darkness because you will eventually be able to find spiritual people who inspire you in this life. Even when life seems dark, nothing is permanent, and there can always be positive things just around the corner.

Take care,

Luke

[Dazzle]

I hope you're just speaking metaphorically. I hope to God that this doesn't mean you're committing suicide!

If so, please don't do it! Turn away from that darkness because you will eventually be able to find spiritual people who inspire you in this life. Even when life seems dark, nothing is permanent, and there can always be positive things just around the corner

Dear Luke,

You are very kind hearted, please don't worry. Eternal Spirit is just fine .

With kind wishes,


Dazzle

[pink_trike]

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....Maybe he'll find his way back to spirituality through music. He doesn't seem to specifically hate Buddhism; he just hated living like a monk. Perhaps someone should tell him about ngakpas (Nyingma married yogis).

Maybe he never lost "spirituality" and your understanding of "spirituality" is narrower or different than his?

[Will]

Here is Osel's recent letter to the Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition:

http://www.fpmt.org/teachers/osel/

[Luke]

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....Maybe he'll find his way back to spirituality through music. He doesn't seem to specifically hate Buddhism; he just hated living like a monk. Perhaps someone should tell him about ngakpas (Nyingma married yogis).

Maybe he never lost "spirituality" and your understanding of "spirituality" is narrower or different than his?

In my original post, I guess I meant that he might find his way back to organized Buddhism. I probably should have said that instead of "spirituality" which is such a vague word that it could mean almost anything. At the same time, I understand what you're saying, and I agree that even Buddhism isn't confined to temples and formal rituals. A Zen master walking down the street is as Buddhist as anything else.

I hope you're just speaking metaphorically. I hope to God that this doesn't mean you're committing suicide!

Dear Luke,

You are very kind hearted, please don't worry. Eternal Spirit is just fine .
Dazzle

I hope you are right. You never know who are dealing with on the internet. I choose to err on the side of caution.

May all beings be free from suffering.