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Buddhism Fundamentalism? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 18, 2012 11:48 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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daverupa
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby daverupa » Fri May 18, 2012 11:54 am

:goodpost:

...though because the texts (widely defined) one accepts will differ, the fact that the implicit standard of measurement used is not necessarily one's own can be a source of agitation. I'm certain this is an old issue in Buddhism, as it takes place as part of the story about the First Council.
Last edited by daverupa on Fri May 18, 2012 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 18, 2012 11:56 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 18, 2012 11:59 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 18, 2012 12:02 pm

Greetings Tilt,

They're your words, so if you're "damdifino" what they mean, I don't know how you expect me to tell you.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby Ben » Fri May 18, 2012 12:04 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Dan74
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby Dan74 » Fri May 18, 2012 12:11 pm

Last edited by Dan74 on Fri May 18, 2012 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 18, 2012 12:18 pm


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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 18, 2012 12:25 pm


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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 18, 2012 12:35 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri May 18, 2012 12:37 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby Dan74 » Fri May 18, 2012 1:07 pm

_/|\_

Nyana
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby Nyana » Fri May 18, 2012 2:48 pm

Hi Dan & all,

Just to add a couple of points:

(i) Conditionality (idappaccayatā), the complexity of the human condition considered in its totality, and the pragmatism of Buddhist soteriology, seem to me to pose serious challenges to the effectiveness of trying to maintain a rigid fundamentalism.

(ii) While conditionality, conditioned arising, and the four noble truths set the foundational structure of the dhammavinaya, the methods and modes of communication used to teach and practice this foundational structure are open to variation and adaptability as long as they accord with that foundational framework.

And one further tangential point:

(iii) There is ample material contained in the Pāli Tipiṭaka to support and validate the legitimacy of a bodhisattayāna. In fact, one could easily thread together passages from texts in the Khuddakanikāya to make proto-bodhisattayāna suttas. This method of threading together pericopes to create larger units of suttanta is already quite evident even in the earlier strata of materials contained in the first four Nikāyas.

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Travis
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby Travis » Fri May 18, 2012 3:07 pm

:goodpost:

I think that In a banner waving sense one can be fundamentalist, but in a practical sense fundamentalism seems to me to be refined idiosyncrasy.

An illustration:
"modern" commentary vs traditional commentary
commentary vs sutta
sutta vs agama
translator vs translator
definition vs definition

Every time you try to pin down the "fundamental" you find another level of conflict. It is like Zeno's Dichotomy Paradox (dividing in half continues to infinity) unless one makes a personal (idiosyncratic) determination, every one of which adds up to a violation of the notion of fundamentalism. The only real fundamentalism is that it is fundamentally up to each of us to work out our own liberation.

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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri May 18, 2012 3:21 pm


alan
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby alan » Fri May 18, 2012 4:54 pm

The word has many meanings, but is usually derogative. Muslim Fundamentalists are the ones who fly planes into buildings. Christian Fundamentalists blow up abortion clinics. Using this familiar context, all "fundamentalists" are hard line, religious zealots. But there is a different way to interpret it. You could say Theravada is a fundamentalist school, in that they focus on the original teachings. But if your point is that we should all find our own path, and that Buddha implies we should interpret the teachings in the way we like best, I'll have to disagree.

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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri May 18, 2012 8:29 pm


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cooran
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby cooran » Fri May 18, 2012 8:59 pm

Hello all,

I’m not sure what ‘’fundamentalism’’ means to different individuals here. Some clearly see it as a derogatory term.

I do remember this sutta however, where Venerable Mahá Kassapa, the elected head of the First Council. Cúlavagga Xl,1,1 (ii,284) cautioned:
"Come, friends: let us recite the Teaching and the Discipline before what is not the Teaching shines forth and the Teaching is put aside, before what is not the Discipline shines forth and the Discipline is put aside, before those who speak what is not the Teaching become strong and those who speak what is the Teaching become weak, before those who speak what is not the Discipline become strong and those who speak what is the Discipline become weak."

So, to me, it seems that as long as a modern teacher is in line with the Dhamma, and doesn’t alter the fundamental meaning of the Dhamma, then various methods may justifiably be used to teach the Dhamma in a wide variety of cultures.

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby Cittasanto » Fri May 18, 2012 9:29 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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SDC
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Re: Buddhism Fundamentalism?

Postby SDC » Fri May 18, 2012 10:15 pm

:smile: Y'know I spent all day deciding what to say here.

I want what the Buddha taught, straight no chaser. No culture. No traditions. No schools. No add-ons. I do not want anything extra to soften the blow. I want it as close as possible to what he actually said. I do my best to read and listen to those that do not stray from what I see as the purest form of the dhamma. It has been working very well for me in my practice. If this makes me a fundamentalist or a fool in some eyes then I accept those labels with pride...great, billowing waves of pride.

Good points Chris and alan.


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