Coincidences freaking me out

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby ReasonAndRhyme » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:20 am

Some quotes from Kapleau's book "The Three Pillars of Zen":

Yasutani Roshi wrote:Makyo are the phenomena - visions, hallucinations, fantasies, revelations, illusory sensations - which one practicing zazen is apt to experience at a particular stage in his sitting. Ma means "devil" and kyo "the objective world." Hence makyo are the disturbing or "diabolical" phenomena which appear to one during his zazen. These phenomena are not inherently bad. They become a serious obstacle to practice only if one is ignorant of their true nature and is ensnared by them.

(...)

What is the essential nature of these disturbing phenomena we call makyo? They are temporary mental states which arise during zazen when our ability to concentrate has developed to a certain point and our practice is beginning to ripen. When the thought-waves which wax and wane on the surface of the sixth class of consciousness are partially calmed, residual elements of past experiences "lodged" in the seventh and eighth classes of consciousness bob up sporadically to the surface of the mind, conveying the feeling of a greater or expanded reality. Makyo, accordingly, are a mixture of the real and the unreal, not unlike ordinary dreams.

(...)

Above all, do not allow yourself to be enticed by visions of the Buddha or of gods blessing you or communicating a divine message, or by makyo involving prophecies which turn out to be true. This is to squander your energies in the foolish pursuit of the inconsequential.

"Forget about being clever, and simply remain." Guru Rinpoche, Treasures from Juniper Ridge
ReasonAndRhyme
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:48 am

invisiblediamond wrote:
Ayu wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Personally i've given up looking for meaning in these things, the world is weird as hell and it connects in ways we can't even begin to imagine.

Well said. Very wise.

Not wise or well said. Wrong. Completely. The way things interrelate is directly reflected in mind. What he's experiencing is the beginning of wisdom of interdependence, which is the siddhi. So the devils can pipe down now.


Excuse me, if you're going to come out and tell me i'm completely wrong for not following or putting stock in things like this, i'd appreciate a good explanation as to why. As this is what i've been taught, and is what is often taught about nyams by other teachers, and is advice which can be found in a ton of literature..i.e. - don't put undue stock in what you perceive your "unique" or special experiences resulting from meditation.

That's not the same thing as saying they mean nothing int he larger context, it's saying not to ascribe meanings to them that are not present.

invisiblediamond wrote: So the devils can pipe down now.



What?
Last edited by Johnny Dangerous on Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby invisiblediamond » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:55 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
invisiblediamond wrote:Well said. Very wise.

Not wise or well said. Wrong. Completely. The way things interrelate is directly reflected in mind. What he's experiencing is the beginning of wisdom of interdependence, which is the siddhi. So the devils can pipe down now.


Excuse me, if you're going to come out and tell me i'm completely wrong for not following or putting stock in things like this, i'd appreciate a good explanation as to why. As this is what i've been taught, and is what is often taught about nyams by other teachers, and is advice which can be found in a ton of literature..i.e. - don't put undue stock in what you perceive your "unique" or special experiences resulting from meditation.

That's not the same thing as saying they mean nothing int he larger context, it's saying not to ascribe meanings to them that are not present.[/quote]

I'm not. Psychic power is necessary to help people. It's function should be understood not downplayed. These experiences happen due to correct practice. It claiming it as oneself in hopes and fears that's the error.
Last edited by invisiblediamond on Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
invisiblediamond
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:56 am

I'm not. Psychic power is necessary to help people. It's function should be understood not downplayed. These experiences happen due to correct practice. It claiming it as oneself that's the error.


The problem here is that the fact that someone is asking about the significance or "meaning" of things like this, underscores the fact that at very least they'd need someone else's guidance to interpret it, let alone "use" it. I assume that's exactly why the vast majority of teachings I have ever seen on the subject tell you not to put too much stock in them. I know they are supposed to be signs that practice is working.
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby invisiblediamond » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:58 am

No. They are themselves the teacher. He must remain present with them is the important task. Insight into cause and effect which is what this is isn't ordinary nyam.
Last edited by invisiblediamond on Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
invisiblediamond
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:00 am

invisiblediamond wrote:No. They are themselves the teacher. He must remain present with them is the important task.



As opposed to what?
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby invisiblediamond » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:00 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
invisiblediamond wrote:No. They are themselves the teacher. He must remain present with them is the important task.



As opposed to what?

To denying them
invisiblediamond
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:21 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:02 am

invisiblediamond wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
invisiblediamond wrote:No. They are themselves the teacher. He must remain present with them is the important task.



As opposed to what?

To denying them



Allowing them to be is not denying them...what is someone supposed to do with these phenomena then if the meaning isn't clear? The fact that significance of them is in question goes to show that in their present form, they don't seem to be workable for anything. Doing otherwise seems to be groping for meaning....
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby ReasonAndRhyme » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:11 am

invisiblediamond wrote:No. They are themselves the teacher. He must remain present with them is the important task.


This is directly opposed to any teachings that I've heard or read on the subject. Do you have a source for your claims?

invisiblediamond wrote:Insight into cause and effect which is what this is isn't ordinary nyam.


That an experience is classified as nyams or makyo does not mean that the experience is necessarily untrue on the conventional level of experience.
"Forget about being clever, and simply remain." Guru Rinpoche, Treasures from Juniper Ridge
ReasonAndRhyme
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby asunthatneversets » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:00 am

Konchog1 wrote:Thank you. Yes, everyone please post more about Nyams and Makyo.

Konchog, my mentor calls this 'everyday magic' and says that the more one rests in their nature, or meditates close to their nature, these coincidences will arise. Every now and then I have large spurts of these occurrences, very bizarre and intriguing. I've had coincidences that make my heart jump because they're so fantastical. So it happens... and more frequently with honed practice. 

For example, the last major coincidence was joking around with friends in a group text and quoting the line from the first Predator film where the girl Anna says: 

"When I was little, we found a man. He looked like - like, butchered. The old woman in the village crossed themselves... and whispered crazy things, strange things. 'El Diablo cazador de hombres.' Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skins... and sometimes much, much worse. 'El cazador trofeo de los hombres' means the demon who makes trophies of men."

I quoted the Spanish and 'demon who makes trophies of men' and then went on google and found a screen shot of that scene.

The very next day when I got home from whatever I was doing I turned the TV on and the first thing that appeared was that exact image from the screen shot and the character Anna was doing that monologue.

It was shocking to say the least. 
asunthatneversets
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:07 am

Yesterday there was a thread on here about whether or not Trees had a spirit. Later that night I was thinking about the thread and thumbing through a book of "ghost photographs". I decided randomly to stop for the night when I got to page 75, and maybe compulsively reread the thread. Page 75 was a picture of..you guessed it, a "Tree spirit"

Ba boom
"Just as a lotus does not grow out of a well-levelled soil but from the mire, in the same way the awakening mind
is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2435
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby asunthatneversets » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:13 am

Another stand out was singing the song of the vajra while driving and getting to the last part which goes RA RA RA, and a truck pulled in front of me with 'RA RA' printed huge on the back of it.
asunthatneversets
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby smcj » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:36 am

No. They are themselves the teacher. He must remain present with them is the important task. Insight into cause and effect which is what this is isn't ordinary nyam.

Mr friend's daughter has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. She says the same type of thing.

Psychic power is necessary to help people.

These aren't psychic powers. This is the superstitious mind. Tibetans are famously superstitious, btw, so this is a common occurrence.

It's function should be understood not downplayed.

It should not be overly dramatized. There is no way to interpret the 'meaning' of these experiences without venturing into samsaric dramas.

These experiences happen due to correct practice. It claiming it as oneself in hopes and fears that's the error.

The basic premise of non-attachment to these coincidences is correct practice.

Don't get me wrong, this stuff happens to me too. But the only thing that 'means' anything is my practice. I could die before tomorrow. (I live in California, where a sudden massive earthquake is geologically overdue.) What importance would all this boogieman blah blah blah mean at that point? It's all just a boat anchor keeping me attached to samsara.

Also when you get around high lamas the tempo of this type of thing accelerates, and not just for the individual. Groups of people can see very odd coincidences happen. Then when the lama leaves, it stops happening. But no lama I've ever heard of has said that that kind of stuff is important in any way--at all!
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
smcj
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby asunthatneversets » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:11 am

I agree that looking into 'meaning' is doing too much. They just occur. It's important not to attach to them and give them too much significance, if any at all. If experiences like that occur, they occur, if they don't, they don't, it doesn't matter either way.
asunthatneversets
 
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Konchog1 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:27 am

Thanks for the stories! I guess I just have to accept suffering if it comes, and if it's doesn't, fine.

It's nice to know that I'm practicing correctly.

I'm rather be able to turn invisible than have intuition though :tongue:
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
User avatar
Konchog1
 
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Karma Tashi G. » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:04 pm

Dear Konchog,

My opinion is what you are experiencing is really a blessing! As your practice grows more continuous and your mindfulness sharpens, your "field" widens and widens and these things enter the mind-stream. It is a ripening sign and not to be concerned! But remember, your original intent is to save all beings, so do not swerve from your practice by thinking and analyzing all the appearances that arise! That way leads to feeding conceptual mind only!! :smile: Siddhis are wonderful, but even if you could fly over rivers, you couldn't ferry beings to awakening, even if you could see through walls, you couldn't see through to own original nature, even if you could remember 400 past lives, that would still leave millions in the dark! So don't worry about all this, and keep going! At least that's my opinion!

KTG
Karma Tashi G.
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:21 pm

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby AlexanderS » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:13 pm

Equanimity
AlexanderS
 
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby Alfredo » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:57 pm

I like the expression (which somebody introduced above) "everyday magic." Some of us emphasize the "everyday" part, others the "magic" part.
(no longer participating on this board)
Alfredo
 
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:52 am

Re: Coincidences freaking me out

Postby TrimePema » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:15 am

Hi Konchog1,

First, dont believe anything that people say about this being a psychological condition and something wrong with you due to your karma. In fact, this type of perception is a blessing.
Now, I'm not saying that all of the things you give meaning have "meaning" or are significant or big deals in any way, whatsoever, because they are not - let's be clear about that.
What I am saying, however, is that the type of perception in which one recognizes coincidences is somewhat pure.
First off, if you have to think about them (like assigning meanings to the time when it is 2:15), then they are not coincidences. The fact that you are doing this means that you are experiencing what is called auspicious coincidence, but your karma is running with it and creating tricky suffering.
This advice comes directly from my own experience, and a lama told me that indeed this type of perception can become pure perception which can bring realization of things like manifest pure lands: just enjoy it and dont let it get to you (I noticed that when it got to me I was immediately separated from the type of perception and flung into meaningless overlay of thought forms to figure out what is happening).
Secondly, so you know what I'm referring to about auspicious coincidence, in tibetan it is called tashi tendrel. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche gave an excellent talk about this subject which you can probably find on the internet (let me know if you have problems doing so and I will PM it to you). It is a co-incidence of phenomena, for instance, like listening to an Avalokitesvara prayer and seeing another prayer while that is happening and so on.
I wish you all the best!!!!
TrimePema
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:16 am

Previous

Return to Help Required

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

>