Adamantine wrote:What about those who have a lifetime of experience who make that mistake?
Maybe outside of the precise "Buddhist" framework
but I think there's a bunch of teachers in the USA right now who
claim enlightenment without a consistent, precise or meaningful
definition of what "enlightenment" even means..and often using
Buddhist stories or references to help support their own claims to special
I have seen that also. Too many times.
Usually these people do, like you said, build up to their private proclamations and hints to students who don't know any better with inconsistent, vague, and meaningless definitions of what enlightenment is.
I invested a few hours in polite debate with a Dzogchen teacher before that ended with his conceding his definition of enlightenment was incorrect and accepting mine. This happened with 3 of his students witnessing. And I thought this would result in him and his students renewing their effort because they now acknowledged there was something greater that they had not yet attained. Later however I found out that their teacher had really gone off the deep end and the students began defending everything their teacher said with an explanation that he was a Buddha. And that was the end of my attempt to repair the hole in their teacher's understanding left by the lack of a strong relationship with his lama and vajra family.
I'm not trying to single out Dzogchen with this story. It's not hard to find an example of this same thing occurring with a teacher of any major school.
I know of one Gelug lama that went off the deep end. Even though he is Gelug he often goes on and on with stories about Tilopa, Naropa, Milarepa, etc. and then he ends the talk with the warped moral of the story. "The guru is always right no matter what he does and pleasing the guru is the way to becoming enlightened." I'm paraphrasing, this particular lama actually speaks in broken English.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.