The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:21 pm

I'm not trying to shut anyone down. I was just re-clarifying for Retro, who was initially asking for information about how this all works. Retro practices within the Theravada tradition. The thread was getting a little bit twisty and I didn't want him falling under the impression that we're too disorganized ;)

Best,
Laura
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Luke » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:53 pm

Dazzle wrote:.
At the present day, there is talk by many in the Tibetan Buddhist exile community and elsewhere, that the young Karmapa Urgyen Trinley Dorje will replace HH Dalai Lama as the most important figure in Tibetan Buddhism when HH Dalai Lama dies.

I've heard this before. I think Urgyen Trinely Dorje should improve his English if he wants to be like the current Dalai Lama and speak to the world about Tibetan issues. Trinley Thaye Dorje, while somewhat more reserved, already speaks excellent, fluent English. I don't mean this in a venomous way; I'm just making an observation. I want any lama who becomes the next spokesperson for Tibet to the world to be successful.

Personally, I think the media should pay more attention to H.H. Sakya Trizin. Just look at him: He was born to be a star!

Image Image Image Image
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:02 pm

Dear Luke,

:bow:

HHST is very special, to say the least! Thank you for the lovely pics.

Best,
Laura
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Luke » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:47 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Nice quote and one I agree with, but then I'm a Theravada practitioner.

I wonder what the "classical" Vajrayana perspective is with regards to other religions.


I don't know what the "classical" Vajrayana perspective is, but I know what you're getting at, Retro. I think that on one level, any Vajrayana practitioner has to believe that Vajrayana is indeed the supreme vehicle which is superior to any other religion or any other type of Buddhism--although he/she can be very polite to other schools and religions and see some value in them. (And more generally, all Buddhists I'm sure value Buddha's teachings more than those of prophets of other religions, no matter how kindly they talk about other religions.) I've heard the Dalai Lama say many times that he believes Tibet has the "best Buddhism."

Somehow, my feeling is that the "classical" Vajrayana perspective would be that of showing kindness to all beings, while at the same time having deep faith in the teachings of Vajrayana, and of course in one's guru.

Many of the worst wars were fought over religion, so peace between all the world's religions is essential in order to achieve world peace in the modern age. Perhaps ancient Tibet was so isolated that they didn't have to confront many of these issues. For example, I don't think the 6th Dalai Lama had to really be concerned whether Christians liked him or not because he simply wasn't in contact with any.
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:55 pm

Retrofuturist wrote:I wonder what the "classical" Vajrayana perspective is with regards to other religions.


In light of Luke's response, perhaps I didn't fully understand the question when I initially responded.

I have never encountered a teaching either in writing or in person in which we encouraged to be anything other than respectful and kind towards our fellow sentient beings, regardless of the religion they follow.

:namaste:
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Luke » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:30 pm

I'd also like to add that Tibetan history certainly had its dark periods. The Nyingmapa, Bönpo, and Jonangpa were each persecuted and discriminated against in the past. Kindness in philosophy doesn't always equal kindness in practice, but the current Dalai Lama has done a great job of emphasizing the importance of respecting all the native spiritual traditions of Tibet.
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Eternal Spirit » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:03 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:But what's not fitting in is your comment about a spirit that's eternal, as it's contrary to the Buddha's teachings on anicca and anatta.

Dear Ngawang Drolma

The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions appears one of fear and intolerance.

The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions appears one of extolling one's own and disparaging another.

What do you think?

However, the Eternal Spirit is boundless, infinitely luminous.

:popcorn:
Last edited by Eternal Spirit on Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:09 pm

Eternal Spirit wrote:
Ngawang Drolma wrote:But what's not fitting in is your comment about a spirit that's eternal, as it's contrary to the Buddha's teachings on anicca and anatta.

Dear Ngawang Drolma

The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions appears one of fear and intolerance.

The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions appears one of extolling one's own and disparaging another.

What do you think?

However, the Eternal Spirit is boundless, infinitely luminous.

:rolling:


Hi Eternal Spirit,

I think that people do that sometimes, but it has more to do with human nature and less to do with the Buddha's Dharma :)

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Laura
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Eternal Spirit » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:16 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I think that people do that sometimes, but it has more to do with human nature and less to do with the Buddha's Dharma :)

Dear Ngawang Drolma

Your view sounds Hinayana rather than that of the Great Vehicle.

:thinking:
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:08 pm

Hi Eternal Spirit,

I believe the term "hinayana" is pejorative under most circumstances, so I personally avoid it.

But to address what you've written, I haven't noticed anyone here extolling his/her own religion and disparaging another.

Best,
Laura :)
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Eternal Spirit » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:20 am

Image
I think the head piece is cool.

:thumbsup:
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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby sraddha » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:03 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Sraddha,

Nice quote and one I agree with, but then I'm a Theravada practitioner.

I wonder what the "classical" Vajrayana perspective is with regards to other religions.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Hi Retro,

I was looking for quotes from major Mahayana Sutras on Buddhism on other religions, so I shall correlate the Nikaya tradition with the Mahayana claims in that these are not at all contradictory:

Here ultimately, all religions pay homage to the Tathagatha -- they are just too ignorant to know it :smile:

"I come into the hearing range of the ignorant in this Sahaloka [world of endurance - our world] in hundreds of thousands of three asamkhyeyas [numberless amounts] of names, and they talk to me under these names, yet they fail to recognise that they are all my own appellations. There are some who call me the Self-existing One (svayambhuva), the Leader (nayaka), the Remover-of-obstacles (vinayaka), the Guiding One (parinayaka), Buddha, Rishi, Bull-king, Brahma, Vishnu, Isvara [God], the Originator (pradhana), Kapila, the Destroyer (bhutanta) [or: the Extreme of Reality], the Imperishable (arishta), Nemina, Soma (moon), Fire, Rama, Vyasa, Suka, Indra, the Strong One (Balin), or Varuna; there are others who know me as Immortality (anirodhanutpada) [literally: non-Cessation, non-Arising], Emptiness, Suchness, Truth (satyata), Reality (bhutata), Limit of Reality (bhutakoti), Dharmadhatu [Realm of Dharma], Nirvana, Eternity (nitya), Sameness (samata), Non-Duality (advaya), the Imperishable (anirodha) [literally: Non-Cessation; Non-Extinction, Non-Ending], Formless (animitta) [literally: Without Characteristic Marks/ Qualities], Causality [pratyaya), Teaching the Cause of Buddhahood (buddha-hetupadesa), the All-Knowing (sarvajna), the Conquering One [or Conqueror] (jina), or the Will-body (manomayakaya).

"While I am thus known in hundreds of thousands of three-asamkhyeyas of titles, not only in this world, but in other worlds [too], my names are not exhausted; I am like the moon casting its shadow [reflection] on water, I am neither in it nor our of it. Those who know me will recognise me everywhere, but the ignorant who cannot rise above dualism will not know me.

"They pay respect and make me offerings, but they do not understand well the meaning of words, do not distinguish ideas, the true from the false; they do not recognise the truth itself; clinging to words of teaching they erroneously discriminate that the unborn and undying means a non-existence. They are thus unable to comprehend that one Tathagata may be known in many different names and titles." (Emphasis added; from The Lanikavatara Sutra, quoted in Studies in the Lankavatra Sutra by Dr. D. T. Suzuki, orig. ed. 1930; Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, 1999, pp. 353-354).




Subhuti, the highest, most fulfilled, awakened mind that the Tathágata has attained is neither graspable nor elusive. This is why the Tathágata has said, 'All dharmas are Buddha dharma.' What are called all dharmas are, in fact, not all dharmas. That is why they are called all dharmas. (Diamond Sutra)


NOW FOR THE NIKAYA SUPPORT, Buddha has awakened to anything -- everything that has been or will be thought or attained -- this means all those sacred books written by men :

"Whatever in this world — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect, that has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. Thus he is called the Tathagata.


"In this world with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men, the Tathagata is the unconquered conqueror, all-seeing, the wielder of power. Thus he is called the Tathagata."
Itivuttaka 112


the Tathagath'All-vanquishing,
all-knowing am I,
with regard to all things,
unadhering.
All-abandoning,
released in the ending of craving:
having fully known on my own,
to whom should I point as my teacher?

I have no teacher,
and one like me can't be found.
In the world with its devas,
I have no counterpart.

For I am an arahant in the world;
I, the unexcelled teacher.
I, alone, am rightly self-awakened.
Cooled am I, unbound.

To set rolling the wheel of Dhamma
I go to the city of Kasi.
In a world become blind,
I beat the drum of the Deathless.'
MN 26
Ariyapariyesana Sutta


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Re: The Buddhist View Toward Other Religions

Postby Drolma » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:27 pm

Luke wrote: I think Urgyen Trinely Dorje should improve his English if he wants to be like the current Dalai Lama and speak to the world about Tibetan issues. Trinley Thaye Dorje, while somewhat more reserved, already speaks excellent, fluent English. I don't mean this in a venomous way; I'm just making an observation. I want any lama who becomes the next spokesperson for Tibet to the world to be successful.



Even though it has improved over the years, His Holiness Dalai Lama's English is not perfect, and His Holiness will still apologise for his poor English and keep a translator nearby when giving interviews or general talks. In formal teachings, after the general hello and introduction, His Holiness will return to speaking in Tibetan and make use of a translator. I think that what makes His Holiness so "successful" is his wisdom, his compassion and empathy and his sparkling sense of humor. As I said earlier in this thread, I personally do not think that anyone can replace His Holiness, I don't think one person can replace another, whoever stands for Tibet in the future will bring their own special qualities and I have no doubt, rich with wisdom and compassion, do a great job in their own special way.
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