How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby Jikan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:22 pm

Caz wrote:
Jikan wrote:
Caz wrote:For me it is simple.

Vajradhara said that in degenerate times he would appear in the form of an ordinary spiritual guide.

:namaste:


Does this mean that any ordinary spiritual guide is, ipso facto, an emanation of Vajradhara? I ask because I'm trying to understand your answer, not because I'm intentionally dense!

thanks



The person that is a qualified Spiritual guide can be viewed as Vajradhara :twothumbsup:
Seeing as there will come a time when we view everything purely and all beings as Hero's and Heroines there is no reason why we should not view our own spiritual guide purely now.


Thanks for the clarification, Caz!
:namaste:
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby disjointed » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:20 am

It's interesting that a moderator would ask me to break the TOS.
Does that mean I am an exception to the rules or are you just trying to force the hand of the other moderators with a circumstance you have instigated?

I suppose I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume I've been given a special status I won't be making use of?
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby disjointed » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:22 am

I wonder how the other moderators feel about this kind of manipulative ploy from within their ranks.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:54 am

disjointed wrote:I wonder how the other moderators feel about this kind of manipulative ploy from within their ranks.


Ya know, I'm not omniscient so maybe I'm wrong in seriously doubting your allegation here, but I've never seen Jikan try anything underhanded like you're accusing him of. I've only ever seen him have straightforward, honest communication. I don't think there's anything going on on this website that supports conspiracy theories.
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby disjointed » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:06 am

Jikan wrote:
disjointed wrote:cognitive dissonance the origin is almost certainly due to listening to teachings by a Buddhist cult lama.


Hi disjointed,

Would you please enlighten us with some examples of "Buddhist cult lamas" and if you like some personality cults that may be relevant to this discussion as you understand it? it's hard to follow your argument at the level of abstraction you present it.


Sorry Pema, I should have included the relevant quote in my first response to his asking me to break the TOS.
If there is a radical inconsistency between your statements and the position you claim to hold,
you are a sock puppet.
Make as many accounts as you want; people can identify your deception with this test.
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby Jikan » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:05 pm

disjointed wrote:It's interesting that a moderator would ask me to break the TOS.
Does that mean I am an exception to the rules or are you just trying to force the hand of the other moderators with a circumstance you have instigated?

I suppose I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume I've been given a special status I won't be making use of?


I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by asking you to explain your position a bit further (quoted below), because it wasn't clear to me what you were up to. I saw more than one way to make sense of your posts. From your subsequent comments (quoted above), it appears that you were attempting to use some kind of shorthand to slide past the ToS (you admit that if you were to articulate your position further, you'd necessarily violate the ToS), and now you're blaming me for calling you out on it.

:shrug:

Jikan wrote:
disjointed wrote:cognitive dissonance the origin is almost certainly due to listening to teachings by a Buddhist cult lama.


Hi disjointed,

Would you please enlighten us with some examples of "Buddhist cult lamas" and if you like some personality cults that may be relevant to this discussion as you understand it? it's hard to follow your argument at the level of abstraction you present it.
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby Simon E. » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:55 pm

Jikan is one of the most balanced and reflective of forum mods.
I don't know what is going on here...but it wont be because of underhand practice by Jikan.
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Re: How to tell if a lama is an emanation of a deity?

Postby Tsondru » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:38 pm

Greetings Luke, hope everything is going well with you.

In regards to your question I am no expert by any means on the details of these kind of things. So I can only offer some thoughts which may or may not be helpful.

In terms of whether your lama is actually an emanation of a Deity, I would say there is no way to know for sure which may satisfy yourself.

First I would take a look at who recognized the lama as such, was it an authentic wisdom lama?
However I would mention that as someone else said, there is really know way to know as an ordinary being.

Of course things such as tulkus, or claims of emanations etc may be used to perpetuate abuse, and thievery, etc I am definitely aware of that part.

There is no way to know if they are knowing things or not, they may not 'appear' to but then again many things do not appear to the ordinary perception of sentient beings.

I would say that part is not so much important, whether your lama appears to be knowing everything or not. Rather is he compassionate, does he have wisdom, does he have experience? Does he care for you and your spiritual well being?? to me these things are more important than whatever title was put onto them and mentally expecting them to fulfill our concept of what that title will look like in manifestation.

Yes titles, and what not may be misused however that is why we should ideally examine the lamas before taking them as a teacher. Once we establish a teacher-student relationship in my opinion it is very important to try to maintain that relationship. In the light of having received wangs, lung and tri, which I am assuming you have.

Will the teacher always appear to conform to our ideas of what they should be? of course not, however does it mean our ideas are correct or course not. We do project impurity stemming from our own minds as well. There are students who have may have started with a very impure perception of their guru, and ended up with a very perfect perception of their guru at the end.

As we know devotion is very important, however I don't believe in 'forcing' it if we don't have it. None the less it is important, so even if one had a lama who was 'not' perfect but none the less a good lama who has bodhichitta etc then it can be quite beneficial to view them in a pure light.. Now I am not saying this in a way to justify abuses or anything like that. However it also does not mean that the said lama is not much greater than we think, some of the greatest teachers may not have been seen in much of a positive light.

Which is why I stress again examination making sure the lama is authentic, and then once one enters into the guru disciple relationship IMO entertaining negative thoughts about the lama is just not beneficial, neither towards our vajra brothers and sisters. Though I know easier said then done. ( does it mean every situation that happens in a sangha is perfect and ok, I don't think so and things can be dealt with, ideally with patience and a good motivation, with other vajra siblings etc, again I know easier said than done but it's the aim! )

If the lama is seeming to do some abusive activity or something like that, that is another issue I would say. However instead of asking internet forums in that particular case I would recommend consulting a very high very reputable lama, such as HH the Dalai lama, HH Sakya trizin etc, and clearly explaining the situation and getting their advice, as it is such a sensitive thing, particularly in the light of samaya.

Hope my words may have been helpful to you, I don't know if you have plans to continue to study with Vajrayana or not so I don't want to bother you. If you don't I don't know what to say to you as you made your mind up. However if you do I sincerely hope all obstacles for you may be dispelled.

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