Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:55 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Germany
Karma Jinpa wrote:
There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:



There is a practice connected to this form that is done for beings in the Bardo. It is quite common in the Kamtsang lineage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Karma Jinpa wrote:
There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:


Could be Korwa Dongtruk from Chokling Tersar or some other treasure lineage. ChNNR give this teachings from both Adzom Drukpa and Chokling Tersar.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
Dhondrub wrote:
There is a practice connected to this form that is done for beings in the Bardo. It is quite common in the Kamtsang lineage.


That's one of the primary reasons I'm interested in this particular form. I'm an aspiring chaplain, and would presumably be dealing with death quite a bit in my future career. As a matter of fact, the Bardo between lives and practices for the dead have been at the forefront ever since I started on the path... The first text I ever read was Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living & Dying. Been interested in the Bardo Thödöl, Phowa and the like ever since.

I believe the text you're referring to specifically is the Namdag Digdrib Thamché Shegpa'i Gyalpo Narag Dongtruk, composed by Jamgön Kongtrul Lodrö Thayé based on the terma sadhana by Guru Chöwang. The only reason I know this is because---in a weird twist of karma---one of my professors from FSU noted it in his book, The Hidden History of the Tibetan Book of the Dead: http://tinyurl.com/odeosf2

Does anyone know where either sadhana is available?

Even the deity's name---Chenrezig Thugjé Chenpo Khorwa Dongtruk (Avalokita, the Great Compassionate One who Dredges the Pit of Samsara)---somehow resonates with me... Especially the last bit. Came across a similar phrase in Kaybjé Penor Rinpoche's swift rebirth prayer and was greatly inspired.

:sage:

heart wrote:
Could be Korwa Dongtruk from Chokling Tersar or some other treasure lineage. ChNNR give this teachings from both Adzom Drukpa and Chokling Tersar.

/magnus


There are apparently multiple terma from various cycles featuring this form of Chenrezig. Chokling Tersar is another likely origin for the empowerment given by the 17th Karmapa, especially in light of the mutual teacher-disciple relationship between Chokgyur Lingpa and the 14th Karmapa, Thekchok Dorjé. However, the story as told in King of the Empty Plain (p. 211) is just too extraordinary to ignore, not to mention that it means the Karmapas had the practice 8 incarnations prior to the time of Chokgyur Lingpa. http://tinyurl.com/nuqk3e4

Perhaps in the Karmapas the lineages of both Guru Chöwang & Chokgyur Lingpa have been merged into one? Karmapa is Chenrezig incarnate, after all :bow:

Thanks for the info regarding ChNN! While the lineage of Guru Chöwang would be ideal, I'd love to get instruction on this yidam from Rinpoche, whatever the lineage since I suspect they're not too different. I'd have the book on the practice by Adzom Drukpa already if it weren't restricted. http://www.shangshungstore.org/index.php?l=product_detail&p=45

If anyone hears of an empowerment of this deity being webcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd announce it here!

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
The one that's commonly done by Karma Kagyu Lamas for Jangchog (death ritual) is Chogling's Khorwa Dongdruk. You'll find the sadhana and the jangchog ritual text in most Karma Kagyu monasteries' "Collected Prayers" or "ShelDon."

You should ask a Lama to give the empowerment.

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am
Posts: 2190
Quote:
I'm an aspiring chaplain...

That's ok, we won't tell. Your secret is safe with us...

_________________
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Image

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
Any difference between Khorwa Dondrup and Khorwa Dongtruk, or is it just a matter of transliteration?

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
Protection amulet? Liberation Upon Seeing?

Image

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
It's" DongDruk".....'khor ba dong sprugs in Wylie.

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
conebeckham wrote:
It's" DongDruk".....'khor ba dong sprugs in Wylie.


Ah. At RYI they taught me "sa pata pa, pa rata tra" :thinking:

The reason I ask about K(h)orwa Dondrup is because I've seen that nearly as much as Tongtrug. Even when I went to save the photo you posted, the filename includes "Dundrop," with the vowels likely being accidentally transposed...

:rolleye:

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:05 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Germany
I should have a pdf somewhere with english translation, but it goes without saying that you need Wang, Lung and Tri.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Ya, it's common to see mistakes in phoneticized Tibetan.....even in Sanskrit. My personal favorite is "Chakrasambhava" --

Regarding "DongDruk" or "Tongtruk"--The non-aspirated first-column labial, "pa," really becomes more like a first-column non-aspirated dental "ta" with the cerebral retroflex, when the "ra-tag" is added...but it's then "protected" by the "ngonjuk" (prefix) "Sa." So it becomes more of a "Dr" sound than a "Tr" sound...to non-Tibetan ears, at least.

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 972
Karma Jinpa wrote:
If anyone hears of an empowerment of this deity being webcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd announce it here!


ChNNR typically gives permission for this at the end of each retreat among the secondary practices. This (along with direct introduction) is all you need to practice it according to how he teaches it.

_________________
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
~Arthur Carlson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Karma Jinpa wrote:
Protection amulet? Liberation Upon Seeing?


Both. This is from ChNNR. Last year he gave wang, lung and tri (in his own style) for Korwa Dontruk from Adzom Drukpa in Barcelona and by open webcast.
By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 2808
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Yep, Magnus.

_________________
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am
Posts: 993
heart wrote:
This is from ChNNR. Last year he gave wang, lung and tri (in his own style) for Korwa Dontruk from Adzom Drukpa in Barcelona and by open webcast.


I was going to say I think it was this summer, but I checked and in fact it was almost a year back. If I recall correctly this was a wrathful form, but don't trust my perceptions, I don't. :tongue:

_________________
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
heart wrote:
By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus


Oh really? How can we be sure? I find myself interested because, amongst other things, I completed my accumulation of 100k Karkhyen mantras on the anniversary of that empowerment...

:thanks:

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Posts: 460
From the cover of ChNNR's book on the practice of Tertön Adzom Drukpa:

Image

_________________
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm
Posts: 3142
Karma Jinpa wrote:
heart wrote:
By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus


Oh really? How can we be sure? I find myself interested because, amongst other things, I completed my accumulation of 100k Karkhyen mantras on the anniversary of that empowerment...

:thanks:


This is what I remember was said at the time, because of my personal connection with Chokling Tersar I considered it an auspicious sign.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group