steveb1 wrote: Dependent Origination?
Nothing wrote:Clearly, it is not understood if you understand.
Oushi, can you provide a very good example to illustrate what you mean by the term "allowance" relative to causality so we can get back on to topic and maybe better understand what the true meaning is?
Dan74 wrote:I like this thread but 'allowance' sounds a bit clumsy to me, since it usually means a bit of spending money. Maybe 'acquiescence'?
Nothing wrote:you ever even imagined what it would be like?
Nothing wrote:Words really are useless at times trying to describe things like this
praeteritum wrote:Causality shows that everything is connected, not that everything is separate!
Cause = effect, the same as 1+1=2. [1+1] is the same as , not separate.
KonchokZoepa wrote:if the cause and effect are not same, they dont arise from themselves, not from other, not from both and not from neither. can you explain this what the situation then is ? for it seems you have ''grasped'' experientally some kind of understanding or experience of the true meaning of the middle way.
praeteritum wrote:But everything does indeed equal everything.
Each moment or now, is the outcome of the previous moment. Causality is like a tree, where effect is new growth, and cause is everything that made that growth. The tree is one, but due to language, we could get confused into believing the branches are separate. But the leaves, the branches, the trunk and roots, are the tree. The process of the tree growing is the tree, because there is no stable thing that could be called the tree. There's always movement, either in the tiniest amount of growth, or in the tiniest amount of decay.
Causality is the process of change, and everything is in constant change. To walk up to the top step, means we walked up previous steps. Walking up all the steps = getting to the top.
Separation is an illusion.
praeteritum wrote:If the self does not exist, how come we know what the self is?
praeteritum wrote:This existing and not existing, are in fact the same, it is what it means to stop thinking in a dualistic manner.
praeteritum wrote:It is how nirvana is nirvana, and yet it is emptiness and nothingness.
praeteritum wrote:"If cause equal effect, why do we call them differently? Pure ignorance?"
Not ignorance, but instead how language works. Why do we call the sides of a coin different, when there is only the coin?
praeteritum wrote:Now does not end, but moves. There is no stopping of a moment called now, no ending.
It is not frozen.
Randomness now would only be on the very smallest of scales.
praeteritum wrote:Now is now... Now is each moment, but it's an on going flow, otherwise you'd be stuck in the past.
praeteritum wrote:"And we behave like dualistic thinking never happened?"
By the same logic, why are you saying cause and effect don't exist?
Separating man from the universe is dualistic thinking, it may allow language to work, but in reality, there is no separation.
praeteritum wrote:And what does differ mean anyway? If you have a color of red, you label it red, but travel towards it at a very fast speed, and it will change to blue, and we will call it blue. Are you saying that because to our eyes it changes color, that the fundamental of what it is (a wave.) is two separate parts?
praeteritum wrote:The reason that (cause) = (effect), and is therefore the same, is mathematical in nature. That's why I mentioned the 1+1=2.
The journey had a dream-like quality: rain, fog and clouds transformed the virgin forest, the rocks and mountains, gorges and precipices into a world of uncannily changing, fantastic forms, which appeared and dissolved with such suddenness that one began to doubt their reality as well as one's own. Mighty waterfalls hurled from invisible heights into an equally invisible bottomless depth. Clouds above and clouds below the narrow path....
(crossing over to Tibet): on the highest point of the pass the clouds that in huge masses surged angrily and threateningly dark against the mountain walls, dissolved into thin air as if by magic, the gates of heaven were opened, and a world of luminous colours under a deep blue sky stretched before one's eyes and a fierce sun lit up the snow-covered slopes on the other side of the pass so that one was almost blinded by their brilliance.....
The Way of the White Clouds, Lama Anagarika Govinda (p77)