Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

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Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:10 pm

There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Dhondrub » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:14 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:



There is a practice connected to this form that is done for beings in the Bardo. It is quite common in the Kamtsang lineage.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby heart » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:05 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:There is another red form of Chenrezig known as Khorwa Dongtruk (sometimes written "Korwa Tongtrug"). He is usually depicted with two arms, and is standing. It was the empowerment of this form that HH the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa gave to 20,000 disciples who congregated at Tsurphu a day or two after he was enthroned and his hair was cut at the Jokhang in front of the Jowo Rinpoche.

Does anyone have detailed information on this manifestation of Avalokita?

Thus far I've been able to ascertain that it was Thangtong Gyalpo who gave the wang, lung, and tri of Guru Chöwang's terma to the 6th Karmapa, Thongwa Dönden. Apparently this occurred only after some of the monks at the Great Encampment had attempted to stone Thangtong to death and failed, upon which he was ushered into the Karmapa's personal tent.
:jawdrop:


Could be Korwa Dongtruk from Chokling Tersar or some other treasure lineage. ChNNR give this teachings from both Adzom Drukpa and Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:42 pm

Dhondrub wrote:There is a practice connected to this form that is done for beings in the Bardo. It is quite common in the Kamtsang lineage.


That's one of the primary reasons I'm interested in this particular form. I'm an aspiring chaplain, and would presumably be dealing with death quite a bit in my future career. As a matter of fact, the Bardo between lives and practices for the dead have been at the forefront ever since I started on the path... The first text I ever read was Sogyal Rinpoche's Tibetan Book of Living & Dying. Been interested in the Bardo Thödöl, Phowa and the like ever since.

I believe the text you're referring to specifically is the Namdag Digdrib Thamché Shegpa'i Gyalpo Narag Dongtruk, composed by Jamgön Kongtrul Lodrö Thayé based on the terma sadhana by Guru Chöwang. The only reason I know this is because---in a weird twist of karma---one of my professors from FSU noted it in his book, The Hidden History of the Tibetan Book of the Dead: http://tinyurl.com/odeosf2

Does anyone know where either sadhana is available?

Even the deity's name---Chenrezig Thugjé Chenpo Khorwa Dongtruk (Avalokita, the Great Compassionate One who Dredges the Pit of Samsara)---somehow resonates with me... Especially the last bit. Came across a similar phrase in Kaybjé Penor Rinpoche's swift rebirth prayer and was greatly inspired.

:sage:

heart wrote:Could be Korwa Dongtruk from Chokling Tersar or some other treasure lineage. ChNNR give this teachings from both Adzom Drukpa and Chokling Tersar.

/magnus


There are apparently multiple terma from various cycles featuring this form of Chenrezig. Chokling Tersar is another likely origin for the empowerment given by the 17th Karmapa, especially in light of the mutual teacher-disciple relationship between Chokgyur Lingpa and the 14th Karmapa, Thekchok Dorjé. However, the story as told in King of the Empty Plain (p. 211) is just too extraordinary to ignore, not to mention that it means the Karmapas had the practice 8 incarnations prior to the time of Chokgyur Lingpa. http://tinyurl.com/nuqk3e4

Perhaps in the Karmapas the lineages of both Guru Chöwang & Chokgyur Lingpa have been merged into one? Karmapa is Chenrezig incarnate, after all :bow:

Thanks for the info regarding ChNN! While the lineage of Guru Chöwang would be ideal, I'd love to get instruction on this yidam from Rinpoche, whatever the lineage since I suspect they're not too different. I'd have the book on the practice by Adzom Drukpa already if it weren't restricted. http://www.shangshungstore.org/index.php?l=product_detail&p=45

If anyone hears of an empowerment of this deity being webcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd announce it here!
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby conebeckham » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:11 pm

The one that's commonly done by Karma Kagyu Lamas for Jangchog (death ritual) is Chogling's Khorwa Dongdruk. You'll find the sadhana and the jangchog ritual text in most Karma Kagyu monasteries' "Collected Prayers" or "ShelDon."

You should ask a Lama to give the empowerment.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby smcj » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:18 pm

I'm an aspiring chaplain...

That's ok, we won't tell. Your secret is safe with us...
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby conebeckham » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:58 pm

Image
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:03 pm

Any difference between Khorwa Dondrup and Khorwa Dongtruk, or is it just a matter of transliteration?
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:36 pm

Protection amulet? Liberation Upon Seeing?

Image
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby conebeckham » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:51 pm

It's" DongDruk".....'khor ba dong sprugs in Wylie.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:28 pm

conebeckham wrote:It's" DongDruk".....'khor ba dong sprugs in Wylie.


Ah. At RYI they taught me "sa pata pa, pa rata tra" :thinking:

The reason I ask about K(h)orwa Dondrup is because I've seen that nearly as much as Tongtrug. Even when I went to save the photo you posted, the filename includes "Dundrop," with the vowels likely being accidentally transposed...

:rolleye:
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Dhondrub » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:46 pm

I should have a pdf somewhere with english translation, but it goes without saying that you need Wang, Lung and Tri.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby conebeckham » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:49 pm

Ya, it's common to see mistakes in phoneticized Tibetan.....even in Sanskrit. My personal favorite is "Chakrasambhava" --

Regarding "DongDruk" or "Tongtruk"--The non-aspirated first-column labial, "pa," really becomes more like a first-column non-aspirated dental "ta" with the cerebral retroflex, when the "ra-tag" is added...but it's then "protected" by the "ngonjuk" (prefix) "Sa." So it becomes more of a "Dr" sound than a "Tr" sound...to non-Tibetan ears, at least.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Dorje » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:21 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:If anyone hears of an empowerment of this deity being webcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd announce it here!


ChNNR typically gives permission for this at the end of each retreat among the secondary practices. This (along with direct introduction) is all you need to practice it according to how he teaches it.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby heart » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:03 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:Protection amulet? Liberation Upon Seeing?


Both. This is from ChNNR. Last year he gave wang, lung and tri (in his own style) for Korwa Dontruk from Adzom Drukpa in Barcelona and by open webcast.
By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby conebeckham » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:53 pm

Yep, Magnus.
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby futerko » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:37 pm

heart wrote: This is from ChNNR. Last year he gave wang, lung and tri (in his own style) for Korwa Dontruk from Adzom Drukpa in Barcelona and by open webcast.


I was going to say I think it was this summer, but I checked and in fact it was almost a year back. If I recall correctly this was a wrathful form, but don't trust my perceptions, I don't. :tongue:
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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:16 pm

heart wrote:By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus


Oh really? How can we be sure? I find myself interested because, amongst other things, I completed my accumulation of 100k Karkhyen mantras on the anniversary of that empowerment...

:thanks:
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby Karma Jinpa » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:46 am

From the cover of ChNNR's book on the practice of Tertön Adzom Drukpa:

Image
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


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Re: Red Chenrezig - NOT Gyalwa Gyatso

Postby heart » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:45 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:
heart wrote:By the way I am pretty sure the first empowerment Karmapa gave was the Korwa Dontruk from Chokling Tersar.

/magnus


Oh really? How can we be sure? I find myself interested because, amongst other things, I completed my accumulation of 100k Karkhyen mantras on the anniversary of that empowerment...

:thanks:


This is what I remember was said at the time, because of my personal connection with Chokling Tersar I considered it an auspicious sign.

/magnus
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
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