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Is all doubt bad? - Dhamma Wheel

Is all doubt bad?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Viscid
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Is all doubt bad?

Postby Viscid » Wed May 02, 2012 9:07 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed May 02, 2012 9:32 pm

some things are doubtful, the Kalama sutta springs to mind as an example of doubt being praised.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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cooran
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby cooran » Wed May 02, 2012 9:33 pm

Hello Viscid,

You may find this article by Bhikkhu Bodhi of interest regarding doubt and blind faith:

A Look at the Kalama Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ay_09.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Dan74
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Doubt that spurs on inquiry is good. Doubt that paralises not so good.
_/|\_

alan
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby alan » Thu May 03, 2012 7:05 pm

There is good doubt, and there is bad doubt. Some doubt is useful. I doubt the world will ever satisfy me. That's good doubt. But if you want to get serious about the teachings, doubt can be debilitating. Remember, in this context doubt refers to confidence in the Buddha's awakening. If you doubt that, your heart will not be into practice. And if your heart is not into practice, you'll get nowhere. That's bad doubt. Best way to eliminate bad doubt is to read the Suttas for yourself, act on them, and see the results.

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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Thu May 03, 2012 7:27 pm

I think that doubt with regard to the efficacy and the truth of the 4NTs are the only truly pernicious forms of vicikiccha. I will try to provide a source later but I'm pressed for time now. Mettaya.
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Jason
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Jason » Sat May 05, 2012 3:50 pm

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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MrsCogan
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby MrsCogan » Sun May 06, 2012 2:29 am

No, I think doubt is an essential part of inquiry and an important part of growth. Certainty is ridiculous. If you've done your thinking and searching it's possible to come to a considerable amount of confidence in what you have discovered. But trying to force that confidence by ignoring questions and doubts is pretty foolish. It all either works or it doesn't. You'll find out soon enough.
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Buckwheat
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Buckwheat » Sun May 06, 2012 6:22 am

In order to keep doubt in the realm of "spurring on inquiry" and out of "paralysing", I remind myself that what I am really doubting is my understanding of the dhamma, and not the dhamma itself. Until I am proven wrong on that assumption, my faith in the dhamma may remain intact along with my doubt in my understanding of the dhamma. There is another form of doubt, doubt that I am really capable of understanding the dhamma, that does creep in the shadows and give me concern at times.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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icyteru
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby icyteru » Tue May 08, 2012 1:31 pm

if you have doubt, attempt to prove it is true or not. if its true, that become faith.
but the truth is proving something is not as simple as that.
meditation is a way to prove it. but in meditation there's a hindrance called vicikiccha / doubt. so...? :thinking:
The most complete english tipitaka on the internet world.

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ground
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby ground » Wed May 09, 2012 2:12 am

What is doubted is let go. Doubt can only refer to what is conscious, what is perceived and felt and where volition is directed to, i.e. where consciousness is dwelling. So if consciousness is let go is it all bad?

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Yana
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Yana » Wed May 09, 2012 4:50 am

Life is preparing for Death

Chiong
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Chiong » Sat May 19, 2012 2:03 pm

Skeptical doubt as outlined in Kalama sutta is useful tool of inquiry.

Subtle doubt of practitioners and believers are a hindrance to their practice. Even as we affirm positively our absolute faith in buddha-dharma there is still a subtle doubt lurking in the background.

All doubt is removed upon entering the stream - the entire path become clear. When that happens all of dharma opens up with clarity and understanding - including non-buddhadharma such as christianity, islam, taoism etc.

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SDC
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby SDC » Mon May 21, 2012 1:32 am

Venerable Punnaji uses a rendering that describes vicikiccha as "an oscillation between the two mental extremes of repression and indulgence" in regards to our action. Here one is unable to settle on a reasonable, moderate approach so they oscillate between the two extremes; each counteracting the other.

For example, this week I am going to over-eat every day and then next week I am going count every calorie every day. Or this week I am going to meditate 2 hours every day and then next week not at all even though I have the time. Or this week I am going to repress my frustration and not show any anger, and then next week I am going to jump at every little thing. One extreme will ultimately lead to another.

The key is to eventually settle on an approach that cancels out the need for the oscillation.

I will look for a talk where he explains it and get back to you.

Hope this helps.

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SDC
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby SDC » Mon May 21, 2012 9:24 pm



Skip to 6:44, however the entire talk is worth listening to.

YouthThunder
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby YouthThunder » Wed May 23, 2012 3:39 pm


jason c
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby jason c » Fri May 25, 2012 8:46 pm

i believe what he means is the experience of pure mind or the bardo of death , the seperation of nama rupa the experience of no-self no permanent "I". one who enters this with conscioussness and returns has broken the dam, stream entry occurs and the meditator is given a glimpse of nibbana. returning to body the meditator realizes this frution and with this new knowledge of no-self, the meditator has a greater understanding of life. he or she becomes a noble or saintly person.
with metta'
jason

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Viscid
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Viscid » Fri May 25, 2012 9:14 pm

"What holds attention determines action." - William James

Chiong
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Chiong » Fri May 25, 2012 11:34 pm


Chiong
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Re: Is all doubt bad?

Postby Chiong » Fri May 25, 2012 11:39 pm



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