Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators

Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby Karma Jinpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:58 am

Got the sadhana from KTD via the mail today (the same day as Neydo Chagme Rinpoche's passing). Did a quick read thru, and then practiced it after the Guru Yoga section of the Namchö ngondro (a.k.a. Dzogchen: Buddha in the Palm of the Hand).

Wow! I am truly and utterly awed. Not only is the text exceedingly beautiful with all its symbolism, but it's so comprehensive! Contains a short Chenrezig & Amitayus, and the Dewachen prayer... even some pith instructions summarizing Buddha Shakyamuni's main teachings. I had no idea!

Just one practical question:

When it says to practice the Phowa of "Opening the Sky Door," does that mean to do the visualization of your consciousness as the thigle rising out of your central channel and becoming Dorjé Phagmo? Or is there something else one should be doing there?
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
User avatar
Karma Jinpa
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby namoh » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:21 am

You should try and find either Lama Lodu or Tenga Rinpoche's commentary of _The Garden of All Joy_ by Jamgon Kongtrul. It has explicit instructions in the Lujin of Surmang Chod. Of course Lama Lodu specifies that one must have the proper empowerment before reading it. The Kamtsang chod is surely one of the most beautiful practices I have ever encountered.
namoh
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:11 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby futerko » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:59 am

I'm not sure if I remember you quoting Sarah Harding's book? In chapter 5 she describes three methods for phowa, 2 with and one without support.
To me, the phrase "Opening the Sky Door" covers all three methods.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
User avatar
futerko
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby Karma Jinpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:06 pm

futerko wrote:I'm not sure if I remember you quoting Sarah Harding's book? In chapter 5 she describes three methods for phowa, 2 with and one without support.
To me, the phrase "Opening the Sky Door" covers all three methods.


Which book by Sarah Harding would that be, futerko?

AFAIK, "Opening the Sky Door" is the term used for the practice of Phowa within the Chöd tradition of Machigma. Obviously that term could be applied generally to Phowa, as the point is to eject thru the crown of one's head. However, there are many different visualizations for the myriad lineages of Phowa practices, including self-generation as Chenrezig, for instance.

Phowa in Chöd would likely involve visualization of Vajravarahi due to Machig Labdrön's association with Tara and the forms of Vajrayogini, of which she was a manifestation.

Someone, anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
User avatar
Karma Jinpa
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby futerko » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:47 pm

Sorry, I thought I remembered seeing you quote from the book called, "Machik's Complete Explanation: Clarifying the Meaning of Chod"

I also thought you were asking about phowa techniques. I have no idea which yogini visualization would be appropriate for that specific lüjin.
we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche
User avatar
futerko
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby T. Chokyi » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:41 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:
Just one practical question:

When it says to practice the Phowa of "Opening the Sky Door," does that mean to do the visualization of your consciousness as the thigle rising out of your central channel and becoming Dorjé Phagmo? Or is there something else one should be doing there?


IMHO it's more than "just one practical question"... this is an instructional question, and an important detail about a Sadhana, but is it so "ok" to discuss this detail on a board. Some teachers won't discuss such details of practice on an open board... for example, just because texts are sold openly does not mean that the practices of those texts (or parts of those Sadhanas) should just be done right away when one gets them without the lung and instructions. If a practitioner has that text in front of them it may not be that they should "start" in right away, unless of course one knows that one has that lung for that text or permission to generate oneself as that specific yidam for that particular practice by the teacher who releases that Sadhana out into the public or the equivalent.

Even though DW is a great place to come for "help" and advice, imho this kind of practice one shouldn't really start on one's own without instruction from a qualified Lama and the lung, however there maybe some exception to the way this text was sold, where the teacher says by buying it you can just go ahead and visualize yourself as that yidam without an empowerment, without a lung, but is that intention clear there, perhaps KTD bookstore could answer that question best, why not give them a call...because thinking one can figure out on ones own and generate the deity on ones own visualizing oneself as the yidam for that particular practice without the lung and the instructions may or may not be ok to do, however in some traditions its really not "ok". I have this practice but from a different tradition, and I would not be allowed to show you details about this, how to go about this practice, not without without a lung and really proper instructions...so I'm meaning well here, not like "dharma police"...

Some teachers say it won't work without the lung. It would also be wise imho to have concise instructions directly from the Lama rather than ask to be taught this practice on a Buddhist Board and then go and do this without instructions trying to figure out the text on one's own and applying the text on one's own. :shrug:

With that said, I don't know you or what you are doing and from your posts, you are sincere and you mean well.
User avatar
T. Chokyi
 
Posts: 357
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:19 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby namoh » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:41 pm

As I recall, while Lama Sarah's book is wonderful it would provide more general info in this case. Garden of all joy is quite Specific. I've been practicing this sadhana since I was a teenager. I have a rough idea of how we do it. Good luck.
namoh
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:11 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby conebeckham » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:45 pm

This question is best asked of a qualified teacher, and I personally don't think it should be discussed publically.

One needs the empowerment and the instruction, both. Though "Garden of All Joy" does spell it out, pretty much.
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
User avatar
conebeckham
 
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby namoh » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:05 pm

Cone is absolutely right. I should have added that this is one example of a practice that every Kamtsang lama I've met that requires wang , lung and tri.
namoh
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:11 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby Karma Jinpa » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:02 pm

I have wang and lung, just not the tri for this particular text. There is a lama local to me in Miami who I'll try to get instructions from.

While I wouldn't normally engage in such a practice without extensive instructions beforehand, it was the death of Karma Chagme Rinpoche that motivated me. The timing of the sadhana's arrival coinciding with the day His Holiness passed also seemed to be a pretty clear sign, though I have been known to see meaning in many things where it may or may not actually be there.

I have ordered the Garden of All Joy by Kyabjé Tenga Rinpoche, and will make sure to read it thoroughly until I can receieve direct instrucions.

Either way, one of my lamas has told me in the past that one can do Chöd as a life practice. As with other details of this practice, I probably shouldn't go into further details than that. Thank you all, sincerely, for your responses. Kindly consider this topic closed.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
User avatar
Karma Jinpa
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby TsultimNamdak » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:10 am

Tenga Rinpoche's Garden of All Joy is a must. May I also recommend Chöd Practice Manual and Commentary (http://www.shambhala.com/chod-practice-manual-and-commentary.html). That includes Jamgon Kongtrul's commentary to the practice - as well as the practice text. Garden of All Joy and the Manual supplements each other excellently. There is also this commentary by Thrangu Rinpoche: http://www.rinpoche.com/teachings/chod.htm. Of course, you must get the tri as well!
TsultimNamdak
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:59 pm

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby Karma Jinpa » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:38 am

:good:

I have an ebook of the Manual, and perhaps should read it while waiting for GoaJ to arrive. Or perhaps I should get back to Kongtrul Rinpoche's section on Chöd in Treasury of Knowledge, Volume 8 ("Esoteric Instructions")...
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
User avatar
Karma Jinpa
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby namoh » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:42 am

Something I thought of later, is that Lama Karma Drodul, Rinpoche's nephew, is very accessible if you know where to find him on Facebook or email. He has always been very helpful to me answering questions, and you can rest assured that his words carry Khenpo Karthar's intentions.
namoh
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:11 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby Karma Jinpa » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:19 am

namoh wrote:Something I thought of later, is that Lama Karma Drodul, Rinpoche's nephew, is very accessible if you know where to find him on Facebook or email. He has always been very helpful to me answering questions, and you can rest assured that his words carry Khenpo Karthar's intentions.


No worries, namoh. I'm already in touch with Lama Karma D thru Facebook and his Ngondro group on Google. With my utter trust in and faith towards KKR, anyone who he feels comfortable enough to delegate teachings to is good in my book :)

In fact, if Lama Karma hadn't put me in touch with the KTC Coordinator, Sandy Hu, there would be no recognized Karma Kagyu Study Group in Valdosta, GA. He is an excellent source of knowledge, and very close to his uncle, though seeing him as his root guru.
"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, it happens that a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་རཱ་ག་ཨ་སྱ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།
ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོ།


:namaste:
User avatar
Karma Jinpa
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby Silent Bob » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:15 pm

After having read all or nearly all of the books available on Chod, I've found Tenga Rinpoche's book to be indispensible and can recommend it without hesitation.

Chris
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
Silent Bob
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:12 am

Re: Kamtsang Chöd Lüjin - How to Open the Sky Door?

Postby untxi » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:23 pm

I thought you said in another post that you received teachings from Ontul Rinpoche? Why don't you practice his Chod?

-Untxi
untxi
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:15 pm


Return to Chod

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

>