vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby T. Chokyi » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:20 am

conebeckham wrote:
Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche said there's no basis for this idea, and he has advised to just go in one direction, and not worry about it.....but to each his or her own.


:thumbsup:

Thank you for weighing in Cone, it's good to know what other teachers are saying. I believe it, not all teachers will
teach the same way, or be strict about "style" or "how toos" for instance.

But with that said, I think that Lama Tserings's comment about skipping over the Guru Bead could be taken out of context though. She may not have meant that practitioners should just keep going round and round, but perhaps what was meant by her comment was that just about everybody is going to skip or cross over the Guru Bead once or twice, and its ok, it's not the end of the world. Tersar Lamas often don't cross the bead.

I don't think CHNN Rinpoche ever taught that using the mala by going round and round is the way to use a mala within DC neither do I think CHNN implied that that is the way he does it, but it may not matter to CHNN which way people do this, he does not teach how to use a mala generally or often at all, it's not about the counting when it comes to DC.

What I said before was true, ask your own teachers.
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby padma norbu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:32 am

T. Chokyi wrote:
conebeckham wrote:
Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche said there's no basis for this idea, and he has advised to just go in one direction, and not worry about it.....but to each his or her own.


:thumbsup:

Thank you for weighing in Cone, it's good to know what other teachers are saying. I believe it, not all teachers will
teach the same way, or be strict about "style" or "how toos" for instance.

But with that said, I think that Lama Tserings's comment about skipping over the Guru Bead could be taken out of context though. She may not have meant that practitioners should just keep going round and round, but perhaps what was meant by her comment was that just about everybody is going to skip or cross over the Guru Bead once or twice, and its ok, it's not the end of the world. Tersar Lamas often don't cross the bead.

I don't think CHNN Rinpoche ever taught that using the mala by going round and round is the way to use a mala within DC neither do I think CHNN implied that that is the way he does it, but it may not matter to CHNN which way people do this, he does not teach how to use a mala generally or often at all, it's not about the counting when it comes to DC.

What I said before was true, ask your own teachers.


Well, I was basically joking about "false memory syndrome," but it's interesting that you knocked both of these statements of mine but accepted Cone's at face value. When I took refuge with Lama Tsering Everest, she gave instruction about the Jetzun Prayer and how to hold the mala by the heart and pull the beads toward you. I am quite sure I did not hallucinate the part about her discussing with some amusement different rules about the guru bead and saying to simply skip it. Similarly, I have heard at least one teaching from Namkhai Norbu about various rules for malas and I am quite sure this was one of the things he covered among many when he was discussing what was really important and what was not. Advanced DC practitioners authorized to teach have said to just skip the guru bead, as well, if you use a mala. You're right about DC not emphasizing mala use, but it was mentioned if you want to count with a mala that's fine and you can just skip the guru bead. Also, I don't know if you checked the link I posted before but it is clear that different teachers say different things.

For example:
"Khenpo Chokey Gyaltsen of the seat of Jamgon Kongtrul in Pullahari, Nepal said, "That is the way my mother and grandmother did it, and that is how I do it, too. But the Buddha never said anything official on the subject."
He was clear that not to do so (not to pay attention to the matter of crossing the larger bead) should not be cause for worry, and certainly does not harm one's guru nor invalidate one's practice.

Since Buddhism sought to eliminate distinctions of class [Skt. jati] or caste [varna] with its attendant ideas of ritual purity, for Buddhist practitioners there is no "official" way of using the mala. In fact, to emphasize this view, the left hand is preferred for general practices. For wrathful deity practices, the other hand is used.

The best person to ask about the use of a mala is, of course, your own teacher or lama."
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby T. Chokyi » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:42 am

padma norbu wrote:Well, I was basically joking about "false memory syndrome," but it's interesting that you knocked both of these statements of mine but accepted Cone's at face value.


Perhaps you are not as definitive sounding as Cone, with the "false memory syndrome".
I've ready the links you gave many years ago.

:anjali:
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby padma norbu » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:15 am

T. Chokyi wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Well, I was basically joking about "false memory syndrome," but it's interesting that you knocked both of these statements of mine but accepted Cone's at face value.


Perhaps you are not as definitive sounding as Cone, with the "false memory syndrome".
I've ready the links you gave many years ago.

:anjali:


So, then I am curious as to why you are so adamant about it.
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby T. Chokyi » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:52 am

padma norbu wrote:
So, then I am curious as to why you are so adamant about it.


Actually, I don't feel that way, but some teachers do one way or the other.
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby conebeckham » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:59 pm

I don't count the guru bead, myself. It's a marker that tells me I've done one "round." Sometimes, I reverse when I get there, and go the other way, and sometimes I skip over the big bead and continue on in the same direction...I know people do it both ways, so.....I am inconsistent like that! :smile:
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby disjointed » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:08 am

Reciting the various mantras specifically for blessing malas hasn't aroused much confidence in me.

Requesting the deities to bless a mala during a sadhana and visualizing them doing so with rays of light or by touching does arouse confidence in me.

I'm no expert in rituals, this is just my personal thoughts about this.
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Re: vajratool mala by padmasambhava and gyatrul rinpoche

Postby dimeo » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:12 pm

padma norbu wrote:Well, I downloaded the book and was not thrilled to read "you can't simply receive a mala from someone else and just start using it."


On one level this makes some sense... Maybe he's getting at the idea that one needs to appreciate and respect the mala to experience the full benefits. Say I give a mala to a friend and he's skeptical and immediately thinks... this stuff doesn't work... How we approach it makes a difference.
I personally feel blessed to have discovered the benefits of using malas in my practice. No one but me has yet handled my hand made malas let alone given them any 'official' blessing. But they seem to work rather well for me at the moment!
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