Sherab Dorje wrote:
KonchokZoepa wrote:that might be somewhat the traditional way of thinking about it.
That is the common way to think about it.
...but i have been to retreats where we dont separately receive lung and just practice the sadhana with the lama.
Yes, you can practice with a lama or
somebody that has received the lung, but to take the text and practice by yourself you need the lung.
oh i did not receive lung for my achi sadhana but i believe im authorized to practice it anyway. and my sangha friends intentionally gave me with effort an english version of this sadhana so i could practice it, even when i dont have lung.
personally i would just practice the sadhana you like if you have the empowerment and not care about little details like lung. its good to have it but if you feel strong connection with a practice, i think it would be stupid to not to practice it even if you dont have the lung.
So all those lineage masters that practiced and passed on the teachings in this manner are stupid and you are smart. That's nice to hear.
no i think there is real and precious value in lungs, just that it is not possible for all the tibetan lamas to go and give lung to every sadhana every disciple wants to receive a lung to. what i think is stupid, is to stick to some stupid belief that you need an ''authorization'' to practice the sadhana. the empowerment does that, what the lung does is transfer the realization and blessing of the lineage and the lama to the practice that the lama is giving the lung for, so yes it is very precious but not necessary to engage in practice.
in example, the next retreat im attending, there are chöd teachings and practices, yet we dont know if there will be chöd initiation or lung. The Lama decides if we need that. so we can come to a conclusion that it is not like '' if you do not have lung you are not authorized to practice the text, it is strictly forbidden '', who came up with this thought and why?
that said, i think people act like its dangerous or wrong or something to practice a text if you dont have the lung. im sure that the lung brings blessing of the lineage more into the practice but people act like practicing a sadhana which you dont have lung for is somehow forbidden is simply stupid.
Maybe in your little self-centred world it is stupid, but I think I will go with what my (and others) teachers say and not some complete stranger on an internet forum. During the Vajrakilaya empowerment that Garchen Rinpoche gave he made/asked Kenpo Samdup give the lung for the text too (so that people could practice). You reckon he is stupid too?
no i dont reckon he is stupid. you surely seem to know Garchen Rinpoche's true intentions on parting the lung to people. '' so that people could practice the text '', did Garchen Rinpoche say actually that with those words,intention and meaning?
Why is there a Vajrakilaya sadhana and hundreds of other sadhanas on many websites, like vimalatreasures, namsebangdzo, samye ling, garchens website, vajrapub etc many other websites open for purchase without any reservation. they do not restrict them for only to those that have received lung or initiation to a particular sadhana. lets not take this too far though, initiation is necessary to practice the deity, but i dont believe lung is. its a bonus but not a prerequisite. i sent an inquiry to Garchens website after the vajrayogini empowerment in moscow and asked about the sadhanas. they offered to ask the resident lama to give me lung to the long sadhana so i could practice it, its a restricted for those only who have initiation. couple months later they sent me an email telling me that the lama said i dont need lung, i can practice the sadhana. what im saying why official stores like namsebangdzo in example has many sadhanas available without restriction, im somewhat sure its because the lamas want the sadhanas to be without restriction.
as to conclude this an answer to the person that started this conv, if the sadhana isnt restricted and you can get it without lying or deceiving anyone or it is offered you i would go for it.
people seem to be blinded and follow strictly dogmatic viewpoint when considering the traditional way of things. this is not last centurys tibet where there is a lama around every corner to bestow the blessings. and i dont know this but why is lung considered an authorization over the initiation when it function is more of a blessing.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....
In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….