Lose Belly Fat !!!

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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:56 am

Thrasymachus, I did not watch the video. Does it prove that the people advocating whole plant foods live what they preach?
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Qing Tian » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:07 am

Oh, we need to speak from personal experience?

Right, I changed my diet to toast (soy/linseed) + coffee (no sugar, splash of milk) for breakfast, enough salad (no dressings) to feed 4 people for lunch with a handful of raw almonds, and whatever my partner cooks for the evening meal (usually rice or noodles of some sort - although I only have 1/2 a cup of cooked rice - +lots more veges, and probably under 400g of meat a week). I drink diet soda on occasion but mostly dragonwell green tea that I import from Hangzhou (China).

Although i have stuck to this diet religiously it is not a totally rigid one... so on rare occasions a pizza may turn up - say once every 4-6 months.

Been on this diet for just over one year now. My weight has dropped from approx 110kg (243lb for our metrically challenged transatlantic friends) to 83kg (183lb) a loss of 27kg (60lb).

I am very active, approaching half a century and my weight is remarkably stable.

What did I cut out? mainly potatoes and sugar (although I accept there may be some level of sugar in some of the dishes I eat, it is certainly minimal). The biggest difference is the sheer volume that I was eating, but am no longer eating, and the fact that I tended to eat all day long.

Was it easy? Pretty much.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:26 am

Qing Tian wrote:Right, I changed my diet to toast (soy/linseed) + coffee (no sugar, splash of milk) for breakfast, enough salad (no dressings) to feed 4 people for lunch with a handful of raw almonds, and whatever my partner cooks for the evening meal (usually rice or noodles of some sort - although I only have 1/2 a cup of cooked rice - +lots more veges, and probably under 400g of meat a week). I drink diet soda on occasion but mostly dragonwell green tea that I import from Hangzhou (China).

Although i have stuck to this diet religiously it is not a totally rigid one... so on rare occasions a pizza may turn up - say once every 4-6 months.

Been on this diet for just over one year now. My weight has dropped from approx 110kg (243lb for our metrically challenged transatlantic friends) to 83kg (183lb) a loss of 27kg (60lb).

Wow! Congratulations on your success! :thumbsup:
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:45 am

Of course, if someone does over 3 hours of high-intensity cardio almost every day like pro boxer Manny Pacquiao does, then they can get ripped almost no matter what they eat--but this certainly isn't the easy way to lose fat! lol

Image

http://www.muscleprodigy.com/manny-pacq ... -1099.html

But jumping rope is a great exercise which boxers do. Ordinary people can borrow this training method from boxers for great results. It's cheap, very intense cardio which requires minimal space and minimal time. Very few people can jump rope continuously for even 15 minutes.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby tidathep » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:05 pm

Sawaddee Ka

I wonder what is her diet/fitness??

Image
Sweden smartest Female bodybuilders

************
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:12 am

tidathep wrote:I wonder what is her diet/fitness??

Well, probably just standard bodybuilding stuff. She obviously lifts weights and probably did extra cardio and followed a bodybuilder pre-contest diet to lose the fat. Lots of webpages explain this stuff.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:18 am

Here's a very interesting article about one woman who decided to train for a fitness model competition.

http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.as ... ally_takes
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby tidathep » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:46 pm

Qing Tian wrote:Oh, we need to speak from personal experience?

Been on this diet for just over one year now. My weight has dropped from approx 110kg (243lb for our metrically challenged transatlantic friends) to 83kg (183lb) a loss of 27kg (60lb).

Was it easy? Pretty much.

-----------
Dear Qing Tian,

60 lbs. loss.....wow!...I'm so happy for you :applause:

tidathep
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby tidathep » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:54 pm

Luke wrote:Here's a very interesting article about one woman who decided to train for a fitness model competition.

http://www.sparkpeople.com/blog/blog.as ... ally_takes

------------
Sawaddee Ka... Luke,

I can't believe she weights less than me (106 lbs) ! I must try harder to flatten my ab.

No muscle for me..no no,
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby dzogchungpa » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:37 am

I haven't read this yet but it looks promising:
http://www.amazon.com/Smarter-Science-S ... 0983520801
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
- Conze
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:29 am

And don't waste time on too many ab exercises. You can't spot-reduce fat by doing exercise for that bodypart!

Jumping rope for 10 minutes burns a lot more calories than doing 10 minutes of ab exercises does!

Some people--like me--find that their stomachs actually stick out farther if they do lots of sit ups and crunches (because of building up the ab muscles and because of something called anterior pelvic tilt which is caused by some muscles being tight and others being weak which result in the abdominal wall sticking out in front).

Here's an article about anterior pelvic tilt and how to correct it (there are 2 pages) :

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... onald_duck
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Qing Tian » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:34 pm

I remember hearing a radio phone when this guy was complaining to the online fitness instructor that despite doing 1000 crunches a day (his claim) he still didn't have a visible 6-pack of abs. Got me thinking so I did a bit of research and found that although you can increase the strength of the abs you cannot make them significantly bigger - like with a bicep for instance. Also, everyone has a 6-pack, it's just that for most of us it cannot be seen because of the overlying fat. You have to be pretty darned lean to see them. Just being slim is not enough.

Note, this does not mean that one should ignore core strength exercises.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:36 am

Qing Tian wrote:I remember hearing a radio phone when this guy was complaining to the online fitness instructor that despite doing 1000 crunches a day (his claim) he still didn't have a visible 6-pack of abs. Got me thinking so I did a bit of research and found that although you can increase the strength of the abs you cannot make them significantly bigger - like with a bicep for instance. Also, everyone has a 6-pack, it's just that for most of us it cannot be seen because of the overlying fat. You have to be pretty darned lean to see them. Just being slim is not enough.

Note, this does not mean that one should ignore core strength exercises.

Yes, yes, everything you said is true.

Well, you can make your abs a bit bigger by doing sit-ups with a weight plate across your chest and other weighted ab exercises, but unless you're training to be a competitive powerlifter why would you want big abs?

Anyway, if you go to page 2 of the article about PPT I just posted, it gives exercises which correct PPT which are also great core exercises (planks, hanging leg raises, etc.) There's nothing wrong with doing a set or two of crunches if you feel like it, but if you're pressed for time, I would choose a better ab exercise.

Diet is the real key to seeing your abs.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Nemo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:53 pm

For a male to have visible abs they need to hit about 15% body fat. Abdominal and lower back exercises need to be balanced as you can damage yourself if you make one much stronger than the other. Having strong core muscles is the best way to avoid crippling back pain as you age. Low body fat is not as great as people say IMO. Once I dropped below 20% I had more trouble skipping meals and lost some stamina. There were many benefits from slimming down but they were social and aesthetic, not health related.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Luke » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:44 pm

Nemo wrote:For a male to have visible abs they need to hit about 15% body fat. Abdominal and lower back exercises need to be balanced as you can damage yourself if you make one much stronger than the other. Having strong core muscles is the best way to avoid crippling back pain as you age. Low body fat is not as great as people say IMO. Once I dropped below 20% I had more trouble skipping meals and lost some stamina. There were many benefits from slimming down but they were social and aesthetic, not health related.

Yeah, training the lower back is very important, too. Romanian deadlifts are my favorite lower back exercise.

Lots of studies indicate that belly fat increases one's risk of cancer and heart disease. It's not healthy to have so much fat sitting near the major organs.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/ ... osis/40370

Of course, having extremely low bodyfat like a bodybuilder in a competition isn't healthy either. One has to find the middle ground.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Nemo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:56 pm

I think you mean Romanian deadlifts are your second favourite lower back exercise :tongue:
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Qing Tian » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:58 pm

It's a great article, Luke. My martial practices place a lot of emphasis on correct postural control and positioning, but it's good to see some non-activity-specific exercises such as those in the link. Also, practices such as zhang zhuang - a form of standing qigong that really concentrates on alignment and proper breathing - are fantastic in training one to really use the the stabilisers rather than the mobilisers. Example - stand upright and hold one arm out straight to the side and parallel to the floor. Most people will find that they tire very quickly. This is largely because they are engaging the mobilisers that burn glucose energy fast and fatigue equally as fast. An experienced qigong practitioner can relax the mobilisers almost completely and allow the stabilisers to do their proper job. Stabilisers are mostly powered via an oxygen pathway, hence the emphasis on breathing that is inherent to all qigong. Stabilisers fatigue far more slowly than mobilisers.

Mind you, it takes a lot of hard work to get to the stage where you start to feel all this happening.
“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.”
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Nemo » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:40 pm

It all depends what you need your body to accomplish. In the military I would train anaerobically sometimes. You bring your heart rate up to 185+ and then keep it there for up to half an hour. You are quickly capable of near superhuman blasts of energy. Very useful in combat as you still have more to give even when you are out of breath and you heart rate is pushing 190. I doubt it has any health benefits though it could save your life in the military.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Thrasymachus » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:18 am

@tidathep:
If you have concerns about gaining weight you should ignore celebrities and bodybuilders and also the advice of anecdotal nancy type Westerners who are likely overweight(just out of sheer statistics, older Westerners tend to be mostly overweight) but who anyway in this thread give us strong clues they are overweight(skipping meals to try to lose weight, doing nonsense isolation ab exercises to only find out that if you are overweight anyway, it just makes your gut protrude more, and who cite fad diet books that advocate using infrequent interval training exercise, etc.). That bodybuilding woman you posted a picture got her physique from drugs, period. Bodybuilding split routines, absolutely don't work without winstrol, dianabol, HGH. They implement such inferior training theory and methodology that is the only way to make gains even for novices. It is known that the mind and body are a total neuro-muscular system, and that when your mind is fatigued your body is fatigued, but in steroid head bodybuilding theory everyone should split train their arms on Monday, their legs Tuesday, their back Wednesday, with no rest since every bodypart is allegedly a self contained system detached from the rest of the neuro-muscular system!

In the USA 70% of the people are overweight and 35% obese. That is not some accident of genetics, they all worked hard to consume that surplus of calories by consuming much more protein and fats(which have more calorie density than carbs) and avoiding as much locomotion as possible thanks to the unlocked energy potential of oil, coal, natural gas and nuclear power. Thailand is starting on this trend:
Jitnarin N, et. al wrote:Prevalence of overweight and obesity in Thai population: results of the National Thai Food Consumption Survey.

... Among adults, using the the Regional Office for the Western Pacific (WPRO) standard, 17.1% of adults were classified as overweight [body mass index (BMI) 23.0-24.9 kg/m²], 19.0% as class I obesity (BMI 25.0-29.9 kg/m²), and 4.8% as class II obesity (BMI ≥ 30.0 kg/m²). Using the World Health Organization (WHO) definition, 19.0% were overweight (BMI 25-29.9 kg/m²), 4.0% class I obesity (BMI 30.0-34.9 kg/m²), 0.8% class II obesity (BMI 35.0-39.9 kg/m²), and 0.1% class III obesity (BMI ≥ 40.0 kg/m²). There was a vast difference in obesity prevalence between the WHO and the WPRO criteria. ...


Vongsvat Kosulwat wrote:The nutrition and health transition in Thailand(PDF)

...

Results: Thailand has undergone social and economic transitions during the past three
decades and is approaching the post-demographic transitional period. ... At the same time, results
from several nation-wide surveys indicate that the food consumption pattern of the
population has changed considerably; Thai staples and side dishes are being replaced
by diets containing a higher proportion of fats and animal meat.
A shift in the
proportion of expenditure on food prepared at home and that expended on
purchased, ready-to-eat food, in both rural and urban settings, gives another
reflection of the change in food consumption of the Thai population. The prevalence
of overweight and obesity among children and adolescents has increased
dramatically during the past 20 years and is more pronounced in children from
private schools and urban communities than in those from public schools or rural
areas. Among adults, results from two national surveys in 1991 and 1996 indicated that
the problem of overweight and other risk factors for cardiovascular disease have
increased significantly. In considering the overall causes of death among the Thai
population, the leading causes are diet-related chronic degenerative diseases.
Diseases of the circulatory system have become the number one cause of death in
Thailand and cancer has ranked as the number three cause of death since the late
1980s.

...


At the same time, the GDP from the
agricultural sector fell from 39.79% in 1960 to 25.9% in
1970 and continued to decline to 10.7% in 199611. A shift in
economic structure not only indicates social changes of
the Thai population, it indirectly indicates a shift in the
physical activity pattern from labour-intensive to more
sedentary; which may contribute to the rising incidence of
diet-related chronic degenerative diseases.
[Thrasymachus: Way too neutral sounding language, this decrease in physical activity related to life purposes is a health bomb, it is not a question of "may", it is a definite contributing factor.]

...


Don't be like Westerners, eat the traditional Thai diet, high in rice starches and other plant foods. If you want advice from a Western who is not total psychological wreck, and biased food addict, I would recommend Dr. John McDougall. He was a traditional doctor who when stationed to Hawaii observed that nothing he tried as a conventional doctor ever healed any of his patients(outside of emergency care), they just kept getting sicker and sicker. But on the sugar plantation he was stationed on, he eventually observed that older Asians who first migrated, and weren't very Americanized tended to be very healthy because they stuck to their traditional diet, but their kids who were more Americanized were sicker, and by their grandparents generation they were fully Americanized and just as unhealthy as any other Americans(who rely on an average of 4.1 prescriptions to allow their meat addicted bodies to make it from day to day without collapsing). Here is a Youtube talk of his where he shows a slide of the Asian-American generations after asking their permission at a restaurant for the photographs, that portion explains what is going on:

External Url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVf36nwraw
Here is a link to his newest book the Starch Solution.

Don't listen to overweight Americans and other Western meat-addicts who want to make it look like being overweight is some unique genetic victimization, and are searching for fad-diet after fad diet, genetic excuse after genetic excuse, who want to make up nonsense that everyone is different to excuse why they are overweight and why say traditional Thai society wasn't, without actually dealing with the actual problem that overconsumption of fats and proteins(which have a higher calorie density) and lack of exercise, lead to constant daily calorie surpluses. Thais for centuries outside of their ruling and wealthy castes had few instances of obesity and it would have remained like this is if they avoided Western neo-colonialism, cultural imperialism and influence.
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Re: Lose Belly Fat !!!

Postby Jainarayan » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:25 pm

Dan Dorje wrote:I think people should speak from their own experience.
Many people here recomend low carb diet, I am just curious, how many are keeping this diet, how long and how many pounds they lost?
According with my own experience, it's anything but not easy. One needs to weight food, count carbs very precisely. It's very hard to eat less than 30 g carbs per day (sometimes even less to keep ketosis, depends if you exercise, how much, so on) for a long time.
For me it didn't work, not even close comparing with intermitent fasting (which is very close to "eat once before midday" percept).
So, it requires big effort, potential can damage your health on a long term, not so much fat loss, I wonder, why people recommend it?


I hate tracking and logging, weighing and measuring. Weight Watchers requires it, but for athletes, weight trainers inc. p'lifters, oly lifters, b'bers, WW just doesn't work. Check out Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint for the correct way to do it. There's no reason to go below 50 g of carb, much less 20 g, or be in ketosis. This is his carbohydrate page http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-prim ... z2h3nxbnU1 but it's easy enough to navigate around for other info. Yes, he has a book to sell, but he has free e-books if you subscribe to the newsletter. How bad can that be? I'm going to take his approach instead of the typical ketogenic diet; it's true a full-on-freaky-deaky ketogenic diet is almost impossible to adopt as a lifestyle. Been there, done that, didn't work for long. Down and dirty primal/paleo low(er) carb is really just meat, fish, eggs, some nuts and seeds, leaves (vegs.) and berries (low glycemic fruits), and believe it or not the occasional tuber. It's a foraging hunter-gatherer nutritional lifestyle. I dislike the word 'diet'.
Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken,
flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273
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