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Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha) - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel

Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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piotr
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby piotr » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:50 am

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

vinasp
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby vinasp » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:13 pm

Hi everyone,

Here is another interesting passage, from MN 28

But when internally the eye is intact and externally forms come into range, and there is a corresponding engagement, then there is the appearing of the corresponding type of consciousness.

"The form of what has thus come into being is gathered under the form clinging-aggregate. The feeling of what has thus come into being is gathered under the feeling clinging-aggregate. The perception of what has thus come into being is gathered under the perception clinging-aggregate. The fabrications of what has thus come into being are gathered under the fabrication clinging-aggregate. The consciousness of what has thus come into being is gathered under the consciousness clinging-aggregate. One discerns, 'This, it seems, is how there is the gathering, meeting, & convergence of these five clinging-aggregates. Now, the Blessed One has said, "Whoever sees dependent co-arising sees the Dhamma; whoever sees the Dhamma sees dependent co-arising."[4] And these things — the five clinging-aggregates — are dependently co-arisen.[5] Any desire, embracing, grasping, & holding-on to these five clinging-aggregates is the origination of stress. Any subduing of desire & passion, any abandoning of desire & passion for these five clinging-aggregates is the cessation of stress.' [6] And even to this extent, friends, the monk has accomplished a great deal."

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Does anyone actually understand this?

Regards, Vincent.

Sarva
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Sarva » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:07 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

vinasp
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby vinasp » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:27 pm

Hi Sarva,

I agree that "gathered under" does not seem right. Bhikkhu Bodhi translates:

"The material form in what has thus come to be is included in the material
form aggregate affected by clinging."

"This, indeed, is how there comes to be the inclusion, gathering, and
amassing of things into these five aggregates affected by clinging."

I think that "included in" is much better, and that this is a habit, so it
happens automatically.

If so, then the form aggregate of clinging could be all the "form" that we
are clinging to. Past forms, future forms, present forms.

But none of this is actual form, so it must be some sort of representation.

Food, sustenance, is what sustains the body, enables it to continue.

Do the things we cling to sustain our sense of self?

Regards, Vincent.

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Dmytro
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Dmytro » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:29 pm



Sarva
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Sarva » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:05 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

Sarva
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Sarva » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:19 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Dmytro » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:04 am



vinasp
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby vinasp » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:41 am

Hi everyone,

Here is another passage from SN 22.79 that may help us to understand the
aggregates:

"This, monks, is called a disciple of the noble ones who tears down and does not build up; who abandons and does not cling; who discards and does not pull in; who scatters and does not pile up.

"And what does he tear down and not build up? He tears down form and does not build it up. He tears down feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not build it up.

"And what does he abandon and not cling to? He abandons form and does not cling to it. He abandons feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not cling to it.

"And what does he discard and not pull in? He discards form and does not pull it in. He discards feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not pull it in.

"And what does he scatter and not pile up? He scatters form and does not pile it up. He scatters feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness and does not pile it up." [Thanissaro.] Link:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

So an ordinary person has piled up "form", "feeling", "perception" and so
forth.The word "form" here, does not mean actual form, but form appropriated
as belonging to self, form which is mine.

But the "form that is mine" is only the belief that some form belongs to
self, so it is only a belief about self.

The belief that self will exist in the future is the belief that self
will possess form, feeling, perception and so forth, in the future.

This is how we construct an imaginary future self - in the present.

Regards, Vincent.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:54 am

Greetings Vincent,

Nice find.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Sarva
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Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Sarva » Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:30 am

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

Sarva
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Five aggregates of appropriation (upādānakkhandha)

Postby Sarva » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:18 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86


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