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Letting observation choose its focus - Dhamma Wheel

Letting observation choose its focus

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
SamKR
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Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:48 pm

Hi,

I have recently realized that during meditation I have tendency to pinpoint and focus (spatially, and perhaps temporally too) the object of meditation (sensations usually), and such tendency is causing stress and probably lesser penetration (?) into the phenomena.

So while scanning the body systematically (or even randomly), how about letting observation take care of its focus on its own (instead of trying hard to focus)? That is, to be objective not only towards sensations but also towards the focus of observation, and allow the "peripheral vision" too. If I let it be so, the "natural focus" is more diffuse but less stressful, and I think My mind becomes sensitive to more sensations (but I need to experiment it more to be sure).

I would like to get your ideas and suggestions about this.

Sameer

(edited for more clarity)
Last edited by SamKR on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:50 pm


SamKR
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:23 am


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DarwidHalim
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:43 am

One of the trick when you have focus on something is to ask yourself, is there actually something to focus to? Once you can see there is no self in your object of focus, you will realize that actually there is nothing you can focus to, because there is no core you can focus to.

Let say you focus on your body or a stone in front. Because your mind has this stone or body, you then unconsciously focus on that. You have some objects that can anchor you.

So, you need to ask further, is it true there is a body or a core of stone?

The job of scanning systematically of the body is to find out whether there is this body or not. It is not just moving your focus, but to find out the answer is there a core or not?

Once you slowly see there is no core, you will lost your anchor of focus. You will then be able to focus without object. In other words, you can just aware aimlessly.

Although you don't focus at a single point anymore, but because your awareness is already strong, you will naturally realize many things surrounding you very clearly.

You know vividly what is moving in your head, in your surrounding vividly, but there is no sense at all there is an observer. There is also no sense of core in whatever moves.

Although you are very aware at that moment, there is also no sense of awareness. You just aware without awareness.

It may sound contradicting. How can we aware without awareness?

Awareness is just a label. At that state, you will just aware, but you know there is no core of awareness that you can pin point. You absolutely know you cannot find any awareness that you can pin point. It left you with just aware nakedly.

You will the ask yourself at this point, for billion billion years we believe there is this awareness, where are they? You will find none.

You don't have object to focus at all.

The key is you need to slowly find is there a core or not. This coreness is the one that magnetized your focus. Once you realize there is no core, nothing can magnetize your focus.

Open and aware without any awareness. Knowing vividly whatever happening without any core moving around.

Many things may move aroun like a tornado, but you always fell there is nothing in this tornado. Because you know there is nothing, you just feel there is nothing happening althoughy so many things are happening.

You observe vividly with absolute certainty the non-arising of so many tornados.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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retrofuturist
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:06 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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DarwidHalim
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:18 am

What I mean is you just aware.

You no longer have focus. But although you don't have focus, it doesn't mean you don't know what is happening. You know.

You aware without focus.

Once you are used to it, you can start the meditation without focusing on breathing anymore. Right from the start you can just aware without being knocked down by tornado of thought. Because you know that tornado is not tornado.

It is quite difficult however for others, because they see tornado as tornado. So, normally you have to go to Samantha focus on 1 object absolutely. This process will calm down the thoughts. At that state, you are in the better state to see who is that tornado.

Basically it is like this, as long as you still believe there is a core, you will focus unconsciously whether on this or that. You cannot run away.

Some people even focus on the mind so hard, because the vividness of mind rise a self of mind which try think it has a self. What happen is they will have headache.

Initially when we don't know meditation is tiring. But slowly slowly it is very relaxing. Because there is no work, no focus, and no aware.

But you aware without awareness.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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DarwidHalim
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Location: Neither Samsara nor Nirvana

Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby DarwidHalim » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:40 am

One of Buddhist master wrote this:

If thoughts arise, remain present in that state.
If no thoughts arise, remain present in that state.
There is no different in the presence of either state.


The last sentence is the one that will make you able to meditate without any focus.

Another Buddhist master said this:
Things appear without really existing.

That is the one that you need to prove in vipassana. Once you get that, you will get that there is no difference whether you have thoughts or no thoughts, because both state are same. Both are without really existing.

Blue glass and red glass are different, but they are same, just glass.

Diamond and a brick are different, but both are same. Both are transient, without any core. Both appear without real core.

If you can eliminate the strong believe of core by witness it and prove it for yourself that actually there is no core, you will be able to meditate without any object or any focus.

Sometime you may feel that oh today my meditation is excellent. No thoughts and so smooth.

Next day, oh my meditation is so bad. So many thoughts.

This will occur if don't realize that actually those two state - having thoughts and no thoughts - are exactly same.

How can both be the same? The key is in your witness of no core or no self in whatever things you are witnessing.

Once you get it, there is no sih thing called bad meditation, even a meditation with million of thoughts are perfect. Because you know vividly those million thoughts are transient, exactly same with the state of no thoughts.

If you can know the no core,
Meditation with million of thoughts, millions of feeling are just same with meditation without any thoughts (the meditation that you always think is ideal).
Both are transient without any core.

So, whether you have thoughts and no thoughts, where is the problem?

Million thoughts are transient, no core, no self.
No thoughts are ALSO transient, no core, no self.

Why meditation with no thoughts are something special?
There is nothing special in it. There is no reason why this state is ideal. Both state are just same thing, transient, no core, no self.

Hollow.

You are actually always and always in te perfect state of meditation, only if you can understand both are actually just same - transient without any core or self.

Perfect without any effort.

Please prove this with yourself Experientally whether this is true or not.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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daverupa
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby daverupa » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:52 am


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Alex123
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby Alex123 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:55 pm

Hello SamKR,

I understand the practice of vipassana is to be aware with wisdom the presently arisen phenomena. Do not "pick" an object to be aware of. Trying to pick something can in some cases be due to greed (lobha) or aversion (dosa). You can see without looking, and hear without listening. Even without deliberately picking, there is plenty to be aware of each waking moment.

In all or most of our waking time the 5 aggregates and 4 objects for satipatthana already occur. Be silently aware of them. Try to have as much uninterrupted observation as you can. Eventually the characteristics of phenomena will be seen rather than conceptualized about.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

SamKR
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:48 am

Hello DarwidHalim,

Thanks for your interesting post. I also do not believe that there is a core and I believe that ultimately everything is utterly transient and without any "core".
But until we realize that "ultimate" truth, or the "coreless" state, isn't the mind automatically looking for such a core on the object of meditation? So the question now is: should we "try" to make our mind not look for the core, or should we just let it do whatever it does and just watch what happens?

SamKR

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retrofuturist
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:52 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

SamKR
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:01 am

Last edited by SamKR on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

SamKR
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:04 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:38 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

SamKR
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Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:53 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:02 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:30 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:57 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Alex123
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Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby Alex123 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:43 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

SamKR
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: Letting observation choose its focus

Postby SamKR » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:51 am

Last edited by SamKR on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.


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